Experimental Aircraft Association. There may also be in the area, local clubs for various types of aircraft including Gyros. What did that roll cage weigh? Empty weight could be around 250 lbs., and a useful load (everything else, pilot, fuel engine oil, roll cage, etc.) could be another 250 lbs. This would be a maximum weight of everything around 500 lbs. This is all order of magnitude.My plane weighed 1168 lbs. empty, 1900 lbs. maximum = 732 lbs. useful load, and if full fuel 52 gallons @ 6lbs./gallon = 312 lbs., leaving 420 lbs for people and luggage. AGSCalabrese wrote: > I found two chapters in Denver that I will call. The website does not > say what EAA > stands for. > Gus > > >> On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Carl Denk wrote: >> >> Join the EAA local chapter, visit and talk to lots of aircraft >> builders/pilots. You may call it cold water in your face, but I speak >> from the experience of building and flying a 200 MPH, 1000 mile >> range , >> 3 passenger aircraft for over 1000 hours in 11 years, and aways >> landing >> on a paved runway. Close friends have had most every type aircraft >> including everything from gyro's to jets, and I became familiar with >> the >> issues of a variety of aircraft. We measured weight in ounces, and big >> wheels, cages, etc. are all weighed in pounds. Only 20% of those who >> start building an aircraft finish it. I spent 3 years of going to >> aircraft events, talking to people, studying before starting >> construction, and that was after being a pilot for 30 years. >> >> AGSCalabrese wrote: >> >>>> Autogiro's have small wheels and expect a smooth >>>> surface for a safe landing. >>>> >>>> >>> Not my autogiro ........ >>> >>> >>> >>>> Autogiros are very light weight, and a 2nd engine will be a >>>> considerable performance penalty >>>> >>>> >>> Not if it was two engines running at the same time sharing the load. >>> >>> Why would a crash cage add much weight to the autogiro ? >>> Materials have really improved in the last 10 years. >>> >>> Why would a triple redundant virtual panel weigh more than >>> the traditional instruments ? And why would it be big money ? >>> I don't think display panels are too heavy anymore. >>> I can get lightweight, low power, processors like the sheevaplug >>> cheep. >>> >>> >>> >>>> http://www.airventure.org/ looks like a great suggestion. >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> Yep, look what the government has tried, >>>> >>>> >>> The day I can't out perform the government is the day I turn in my >>> EE spurs. >>> >>> I really appreciate Russell's comments. Just the facts jack ; no >>> cold water in the face. >>> I am 58 years old and dying while screaming at the top of my lungs as >>> the autogiro plunges to the earth is as good a way to go as any. >>> My uncle died peacefully.... not so for the 40 passengers in the bus >>> he was driving over Loveland pass. ( i am lying ) >>> Best >>> >>> Gus >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Carl Denk wrote: >>>> >>>> Sounds like a good starting place would be Oshkosh, Wisconsin to see >>>> what others have done as a starting point. Unfortunately the annual >>>> affair just ended. :( >>>> http://www.airventure.org/ >>>> >>>> AGSCalabrese wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks for all the responses. >>>>> >>>>> I would like to clarify some of my thoughts ....... >>>>> >>>>> #1 My mention of the balloon was misleading. I don't want a >>>>> ballon >>>>> for floating ..... I want a parachute that opens and deploys in one >>>>> second. It seemed to me that in order for this to happen, the >>>>> parachute must be opened with gas pressure. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The Cirrus chute is opened with a rocket, but there is still a >>>> period of >>>> time to slow an aircraft that could be doing more than 200 mph >>>> forward, >>>> not to mention the downward vector. >>>> >>>> >>>>> #2 I can see that flying between mountains that have not been >>>>> sussed >>>>> out ahead of time could be scary. I want to autogiro where the >>>>> obstacles have all been cataloged. I want to create an autogiro >>>>> corridor between Denver ( near Denver ) and Pueblo, Colorado . I >>>>> don't want to fly more than 500 feet off the ground. My >>>>> understanding >>>>> of the glide characteristics ( which may be incorrect ) of an >>>>> autogiro >>>>> make it possible to pick short landing spaces and do a "flare >>>>> landing". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I have flown several times between Denver and Pueblo. Other than the >>>> congested area, it's relatively flat with sagebrush and other >>>> somewhat >>>> sparse vegetation. Autogiro's have small wheels and expect a smooth >>>> surface for a safe landing. The flare landing, which in general >>>> would be >>>> a normal full stall landing, is still going to roll out at least 50 >>>> feet. On anything less than pavement, mowed grass or smooth dirt, >>>> expect >>>> a forward rollover. I would not want to be near with those blades >>>> rotating just above my head. :( Even a larger plane, meant for rough >>>> landings including Piper Super Cubs and Otters and Beavers would be >>>> difficult to make an unscheduled landing in that terrain. A >>>> retractable >>>> landing gear plane would probably be safer bellying in with gear up. >>>> The >>>> area is about a mile high, and the density altitude will reduce >>>> performance by very roughly 50%, or twice landing takeoff distances, >>>> 1/2 >>>> rate of climb, and one may find impossible to get off the ground at >>>> all >>>> if the service ceiling (maximum altitude possible) is less than the >>>> density altitude. >>>> >>>> After taking a mountain flying class out of Colorado Springs, I took >>>> the >>>> wife for a ride down toward Pueblo, around Pikes Peak, and down the >>>> valley by Woodland Park. Flying the Western mountains is different >>>> than >>>> the Eastern mountains. The West has generally wide flat bottomed >>>> valleys >>>> where a reasonably safe landing can be accomplished under control. >>>> The >>>> East usually has heavily wooded, steep sided valleys with a narrow >>>> stream. There may not be anywhere within miles to even pick as a >>>> good >>>> landing site, even with a helicopter. >>>> >>>> >>>>> #3 By adding a second engine perhaps I can reduce failure to a 50% >>>>> loss of power and the ability to choose a "safe" landing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Autogiros are very light weight, and a 2nd engine will be a >>>> considerable performance penalty >>>> >>>> >>>>> #4 My intention is to make autogiro with a crash cage that >>>>> survives >>>>> 40 mph with 4 point support for the inhabitants plus a seat that >>>>> is " >>>>> locked " into the crash cage. I would want to protect for pieces >>>>> of >>>>> the autogiro flying around chaotically. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> More weight >>>> >>>> >>>>> #5 I want the autogiro to be able to shift to fixed wing flight in >>>>> the air ( and back again ) and go from 80 mph ( 129 kph ) in >>>>> autogiro >>>>> mode to 140 mph ( 225 kph ). All of this this may be an >>>>> unattainable >>>>> dream .... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Yep, look what the government has tried, the Harrier, Osprey, and >>>> with >>>> all the homebuilts, there is nothing, and there are some very sharp >>>> aeronautical engineers out there. >>>> >>>> >>>>> #6 I want a dual ( or triple ) redundant virtual instrument >>>>> panel , I >>>>> want GPS terrain maps digitally displayed , I want the rotor and >>>>> stuff >>>>> that could fall apart instrumented to a extreme degree. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> More weight and now big money. >>>> >>>> >>>>> #7 Super dream ...... I want flat packs strapped to the chest >>>>> and >>>>> back of the passengers that activate in free fall or manually to >>>>> create a "fall ball" around the user that slows their descent to >>>>> the >>>>> ground and then provides adequate cushioning to stop them safely. >>>>> Maybe a new sport. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Need altitude for safe landing, need way to exit the plane safely. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> >>>>> Gus >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>>> View/change your membership options at >>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>>> >>>> >>>> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >> View/change your membership options at >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >> >> -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist