Olin Lathrop wrote:

>> I think it's been decades that I had a bug in a C program (a bug, not
>> a "doesn't compile" error) that was due to an incorrectly typed
>> parenthesis.
> 
> Yes, but compile errors still waste time, as was the case in my
> example.

I see that, but IME it is negligible. YMMV, of course... after all, it's
not for nothing that you wrote a Pascal-to-C compiler :)


>> People are liable to make more typos when they have to type more.
> 
> I guess this is the fundamental disagreement.  I think I'm less
> likely to get "end" wrong than "}".  By getting wrong I include the
> immediate automatic checking the brain does of the key strokes and
> you visually do by watching the screen as you type.  I consider these
> immediate processes to be part of the act of typing, with a typo
> being a error that survives this process.  See my other post about
> this automatic checking. 

As I responded there, I can see that, but I still think it's negligible. 

OTOH, I almost never type "}" -- I have my editor do this. Whenever I
type "{", it inserts the next line, indents it, puts the cursor there,
and inserts the closing brace a line below. Whenever I want to wrap a
sequence of lines into braces, I mark it, type "{" and the editor does
its job (adding "{" at the start, "}" at the end, indenting the marked
lines). If I type a "}" where I meant a "{", I see this immediately very
clearly: firstly, because the expected expansion didn't follow, and
secondly because if there's now an imbalance in the braces, the not
matched ones are highlighted. 

To end the discussion (going back to the beginning of C and Pascal :)
whether braces or begin/end are better, compilers (both C and Pascal)
could come with a switch that allows the user to choose :)  Of course,
Sergio would say that both languages got it wrong...


>> I didn't quite oppose what Olin said. With the exception of a rather
>> unimportant side-issue, I thought that what I wrote originally was
>> pretty much the same as what Olin wrote, even though looked at from
>> a slightly different angle. The only thing I really opposed was
>> Olin's opposition (as expressed in the "not necessarily").
> 
> Now I'm really confused ;-)

This is a good thing, occasionally :)

Basically, I think the difference stems from two "boundaries" that are
different: 

"I consider these immediate processes to be part of the act of typing
..."

I considered "typing" only the typing.

"... with a typo being a error that survives this process."

I considered the really problematic typo the one that survives both this
process and the compiler checks.


> By the way, my translator is available via free download.  It is
> included in the full runtime release available at
> http://www.embedinc.com/pic/dload.htm. The source code is open and
> included in the "host source code and everything" release on the same
> page.

I've said this before, and I think it's worth repeating. Besides all our
differences, I admire the effort you put into your tools -- and the fact
that you make much of that publicly available. And if more people who
use C put a similar effort in their environment, much of what gives C
the bad rep wouldn't be there.

Gerhard
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