At 09:39 AM 4/5/2009, you wrote: > >> I'm a professional electronics tech. > > >Just look carefully at the word professional. If you are > >a technician then by definition you are not a professional. > >Really ???? That is a statement I would definitely take issue with, and if >that was how a prospective employer saw me, then I would seriously consider >if I should work for them. My apologies if I offended, such was not my intention. Although a technician may act in a professional manner and may be considered professional, he is legally not usually a professional. In most countries there is a precise legal definition of what or who is or is not a professional. In many places an engineer is a professional, he has a minimum 4 year degree, has submitted to the entrance qualifications of a professional society, has obtained a licence and is bound by ethical standards and regulations. As a professional he is free to carry on his profession without supervision within the field for which he is qualified and licensed. In many places a technician is required to have formal training, to qualify for admission to a certification body and to hold an appropriate certification. It is generally accepted that while he may work unsupervised that a professional is ultimately legally responsible for the work he does. In other cases, such as gas-fitters, plumbers and electricians, they are constrained by a code as to exactly what they may do and how they will do it. To operate outside of that code they may need an engineers certificate relating to the acceptability of the work or they will need additional permission from a governing body or authority. >As Olin said in the EE thread, 'professional' means you get paid for the >job, as your normal source of income. It is also taken to mean that you care >about the result, and will perform to your utmost ability to do a good job. > >Far too often 'professional' is taken to mean having a university degree. >While there are legal terms that can be used to back this up in the USA, it >is certainly not a global expectation of the term. Yes, true. In many places far more than a University Degree is required, e.g. Professional Engineers in Canada, the UK, Europe. >My first boss, who took me on as an apprentice, straight from secondary >school, took the general attitude that he would sooner employ someone with >the qualification that I gained, as an apprentice, than an engineering >graduate straight from university, because those with my qualification had >to show a specific length of time in employment at an appropriate facility >relevant to their certification. Now, I appreciate that this is specific to >the consumer goods/radio telephone industry that the company was involved in >at that time, but there are still truths in this that I see around me even >now, 40 years later. I wholeheartedly agree with your employer! I have often said that the best favour we can do for a rookie university graduate engineer is to employ him as a technician with an experienced supervisor. > > >Do you really feel that the people you have doing your PCB layouts are not >doing a professional job ??? They are expected to behave professionally, yes. But generally they are working under the supervision and direction of a design engineer. But of course the engineer can often be assisted by the PCB designer if he doesn't have the appropriate experience. > Do you really have people with University >Degrees doing this, as that is what your comment that I quoted at the top >seems to imply. Maybe the work you are doing is specialist enough that this >is needed, but the other comments in your mail don't seem to say this is the >case. No, I don't insist on a degree. What we do want to see is a proven ability to understand the basics of the circuit they are working on, to be able to read the appropriate standards, understand them and implement them. But ultimately, as the design engineer or design authority, I have responsibility for the work he does, I have to sign regulatory application paperwork, deal with the authorities and deal with the backlash if something goes wrong. Hence why I want to see examples of work an applicant has done. It doesn't need to be a masterpiece, but it does need to be a workman like example which can be explained to me in detail. Just having the degree means nothing. But these days the HR people have no knowledge of what your job is, so THEY want the piece of paper. By the time you get to see me, I don't care about the piece of paper, you need to prove that you know your stuff. And, wether or not you have professional status, you had best demonstrate a professional attitude! John -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist