solarwind wrote: > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Rolf wrote: > >> Tamas, in Canada and USA the busses are fitted with Red lights at the >> back and front. Rules of the road require that when the lights are >> flashing, all vehicles (travelling in any direction) are required to >> stop in order for the bus to load or unload kids. The assumption is that >> the kids can then safely cross the road if they need to get to the other >> side. >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFyv4uzSGto&NR=1 >> >> Rolf >> > > OT: I absolutely hate that rule. School buses should not get special > treatment and delay traffic. If the kids want to board the bus they > should wait for the walk sign to light up just like everybody else. > It's also a bad habit to run mindlessly across the road where a 200 > metric-ton truck driver (the truck is 200 metric-ton, not the driver) > may not see the signals and slam into a kid, killing them instantly. > > -- > solarwind > solarwind, interesting. Being opinionated is fine, but you should learn to justify your opinions with more meaningful arguments. In this case, your opinion is very strong, and your justification is very weak. Taking the 'trucker' justification first .... are you really suggesting that a trucker will be able to see a traffic light better than a big yellow school bus with flashing red lights and a big stop-sign sticking out the side? Suggesting that a trucker may not see the bus is a straw-man argument because by the same reasoning the same trucker may not see the cross-walk, a crossing light, a crossing guard, a traffic light, or any other mechanism a kid may use to cross the road. By nature of the 'rules of the road', a trucker (and any other motorist) is required to pay as much attention to buses as they would to traffic lights.... Another of your justifications, that it's a 'bad habit', is also just plain daft. If there is an established rule of the road, and the children are obeying that rule, then what could possibly be bad about that? I think you are trying to imply that the kids cross the road 'recklessly' without paying due attention to possible law breakers that pass the buss regardlessly... in other words, the bad habit is that the kids should still be careful when crossing in case someone disobeys the rule. I agree with you that many kids take the bus rule for granted, and fail to consider the people who break the law (by intent or by accident). It does seem prudent to look both ways and cross when it's safe, even if the bus has it's lights on, etc. I agree that I see many kids fail to show such prudence, and they should! But, these same kids would have the same issues at the cross-walks, and traffic lights, etc. It is not because of the bus that they are fools, it is the nature of kids to be like that, and take their safety for granted. Further, you suggest that the kids be treated like everyone else (and wait for the walk sign)... again, this is not really a justification ... There are laws that apply to all sorts of things where the authorities have deemed it appropriate. The walk light itself is a good example... authorities determined that walk lights make crossing the road at intersections safer. Without the lights, pedestrians and vehicles may inadvertently collide, and cause harm to each other. The walk light brings order to an otherwise chaotic system, and as a result, save lives. The authorities in essence created a special case for pedestrians at intersections, so they are note 'like every one else' (the cars), and they are treated specially. Where does one draw the line with special treatment... should we allow vehicles to travel at 20kph in the fast lanes of highways, allow anyone to park in handicap parking places, allow cyclists on freeways, etc. There are special cases for everything, and they *do* often make sense. Your inital statement is I think the most telling: School buses should not get special treatment and delay traffic. I think that is what you hate... you hate that the stopped busses delay traffic. Your justifications are all just a cover for you being peeved that the kids get to cross busy roads while you have to wait.... I can understand this sentiment. I often end up with somewhere to go but being behind a stopped bus, and some mother strolling accross the road with a kid waving at it's buddies still on the bus, dropping and picking up their mitts, books, etc. It can be very frustrating when these things happen.... especially when you know you can't pass the bus and that 100m down the road the whole process will repeat when the next kid gets off. Very frustrating... ... yet, still it is the law, and, there are studies that show that it has saved many lives, and like many things, from a 'big' perspective, the inconvenience it causes you is deemed to be less significant than the lives that would be lost without the law. Now, if you are angry enough with the situation I suggest you do something to change it... change the law by becoming a politician, etc. or invent a better system for loading/unloading kids. But, don't invent arguments for a system that frustrates you. Study the situation, identify your real concerns, and try to identify the reasoning in the system. Then consider where the real issue is, and respond appropriately. For the record, I hate having to wait for school buses as they load/unload, but I can see that there is a real and likely valid motivation for the law. As a result, I obey the law with a good conscience, and listen to soothing music. I also drive routes which have fewer buses, and I travel at times outside of school transport times. I treat this law the same as I treat a red light when there is no other traffic and it's 3am. I treat this law like stop streets (I really do stop properly). etc. Rolf -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist