That's a place very close to IBM headquarter, and not so far from New York City, isn't it? Funny N. Au Group Electronics, http://www.AuElectronics.com ________________________________ From: Alden Hart To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:28:48 AM Subject: Re: [EE] Market for low-volume PCB assembly? I just did a project using Mettrix Technologies (http://www.mettrix.com/) for short run PCB and manufacture - 200 units. They were quite good and reasonably priced, with fast turn as well. We had some component problems (my supplier, not theirs) that they helped me work through. They are located in New York state and can do offshore as well. Alden John Day wrote: > At 11:21 PM 11/23/2008, you wrote: > > >> Ack!... I was posting this from Nabble in the [EE] sub-forum, but changed the >> tag to [OT], and forgot to change to the other sub-forum. >> >> China still does not seem to be a good option for the low-volume folks, such >> as myself. My usual batches are ~500 pcs at a time, but I find that lately >> I'm doing specialized versions of my products to specific customers' >> requests -- mostly just different layouts, but very short runs of under a >> couple hundred pieces each. >> > > I have had a lot of success, as have clients, with http://myropcb.com > who have offices here in Canada to support the North American market > with seemingly knowledgeable production and engineering talent. Just > recently they did a series of jobs for me, including a 150 piece > fab/assemble run and a 200 piece fab/assemble along with another > longer run. We supplied the parts. Total time from "soup to nuts" was > under 4 weeks including shipping to North America. > > Their on-line quoting system seems to work well and in fact so far > they have always billed us the price that system generated. Unless it > is an unusual quote requirement the system generates the quote in moments. > > I supply gerbers, NC drill files and pick-place files, all generated > automatically by Altium Designer which is my choice for EDA software > and a box of components. They like things in reels but are happy to > handle cut tape. > > >> Part of the reason I'm looking into my own >> equipment is that the quote cycle time for each product or even each version >> of a product is significant and it makes short runs very painful. It's >> amazing how much time I can waste just going back and forth with CEMs trying >> to get quotes. >> > > That is certainly true with CEMs in North America. Most of them > really don't want to do the low volume, price sensitive jobs. > > However just recently these people: > http://www.electrocircuit.com/index.html have done a job for me with > 100 of one board (through hole hand soldered, 100 pieces), 650 of > another (2 sided, SMD components on both sides) and 150 of another > with components on one side only. Price was in fact competitive with > China. End to end time was about two weeks, we supplied parts, they > supplied everything else. > > For another client I have used: http://bramtronics.com also. They did > an excellent job, very knowledgeable staff and pricing for fab and > assemble was not out of line with Chinese prices. > > >> I'm thinking I can cater to those in a similar situation -- >> at least for a short time to help offset the machine costs. >> > > I know folk who have tried the same thing. Usually they have ended up > costing me more to use! They require a lot more hand-holding from me, > have less experience and detailed knowledge about the processes > involved. And in the end most of them have regretted the decision not > to use CEMs, whether local or Chinese. Because they end up spending > far more time and effort doing what they are not so expert at. > > Regards, John > > > >> Cheers, >> -Neil. >> >> >> >> >> Apptech wrote: >> >>> Posting guide: >>> This had a valid [EE] and valid [OT] tag. >>> Only one tag should be uised per post. >>> I've made it [EE]. >>> >>> >>>> But is there really a market for this? I've know of product >>>> manufacturers >>>> doing this to offset the cost of their very expensive equipment, and >>>> allegedly it works for them. But I also hear there's an increased rate >>>> of >>>> CEM failures nowadays, so I have to question the market nowadays. >>>> >>> I don't know about your market. BUT if you look at how much people in >>> China >>> will do the same thing for it may give you some idea. Figure their semi >>> skilled labout rate at maybe under $1 /hour and their charge out labour >>> rate >>> at maybe under $5/hour. And maybe free. >>> >>> GMail recently popped up an ad for the following people in the depths of >>> China (OK - only 4 hours from Beijing by road). Possibly because I had >>> been >>> to Shijiazhuang recently and was discussing PCBs. Power of the hive mind. >>> >>> www.ourpcb.com >>> >>> They SOUND extremely good and extremely cheap. They may prove to be >>> neither, >>> but who can say. >>> Statements like "parts for prototypes free" may scare off some of their >>> competition. >>> NEVER ask for a level playing field. >>> >>> In the same city I saw a rather neat pick and place machine. It was about >>> 30 >>> feet long and 6 feet wide and used about 20 pairs of hands working at >>> stunning speed to populate SMD PCBs with parts. Probably cost under >>> $20/hour >>> to run and probably ran 10 hours/day. They also had a "real" one in an >>> adjacent room, but thte fact that they ran that and the manual one >>> suggests >>> it was better/cheaper/faster (choose any 4) for some tasks. >>> >>> >>> Russell >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>> View/change your membership options at >>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://www.nabble.com/-OT--Market-for-low-volume-PCB-assembly--tp20652930p20654686.html >> Sent from the PIC - [EE] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >> View/change your membership options at >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1807 - Release Date: >> 11/23/2008 10:59 AM >> > > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist