Good advice. Debug Express it is. The incremental cost makes it only $15 for the demo board and chip, so not too bad... If the one without demo board comes with the debug material anyway, I might go that way based on the answer to the question below (second one). A couple of questions though, as I'm getting overwhelmed at what they offer again... :-O Does anyone use the Serial Analyzer? http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en028600 It looks like it comes with a preprogrammed PIC that just does some play comm, right? While I'm not doing any comm on this one, is there anything here that can be used in a comm-type project, or is it just educational? And if I was going to use the 16F887 in other one-off projects, but wanted to use the 40 pin dip (or other chips with or without the debugger but in dip packaging), and typically using the internal osc, what's the best setup to program the dip version? The demo boards are all the small square chips. Should I rework a demo board, or piggyback or ...? In other words, I'd use the dip chip for everything afterward. Thanks for your patience. ;) Skip -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist