> Gerhard Fiedler 09 Oct 08 18:28:58 >>> > >Didn't Rolf describe an installation where White was hot (if a switch was >on)? And all the "code defenders" thought this was ok? :) > >Gerhard >-------------------------------------------- You made me look - and I learned something. Thanks. :) Hope the following helps others too. I was on the understanding that the code said you could use white for hot with no CODE problems - of course it does cause safety problems. White/grey can be hot... 1) If the installation is prior to the 1999 NEC 2) If in a newer installation, and the wire is 're-identified' (e.g. black tape encircling the wire - or paint.) http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_art_science_color/ ----------- Parts that really pertain to this discussion ----- Prior to the 1999 NEC, a white ungrounded conductor supplying a switch did not have to be re-identified because its use was considered self-evident To create a switch loop, re-identify the white conductor black. This installation creates a Code violation. You can*t re-identify the black wire to make it a grounded conductor if the size is 6 AWG and smaller. Instead, pull a new white or gray wire --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The NEC gives explicit directives on color coding, but not in any one article or chapter. In fact, there are more than 20 major NEC locations that address color coding. NEC 2008 does not contain big changes in this area. The last major change was in NEC 2005 with the addition of Art. 210.5, which required enhanced identification where different voltage or phase systems are in the same building. For 6 AWG and smaller, an insulated grounded conductor must be white or gray - or have three continuous white stripes in other than green insulation along its entire length. .... A Fine Print Note (FPN) points out that gray may have been used in the past for ungrounded conductors, so care must be used when working on older systems. For sizes larger than 6 AWG, a different set of NEC rules applies (Photo 3), .. impractical to stock these sizes in various colors..... Besides the white, gray, or three white stripes along the entire length as allowed for smaller conductors, conductors larger than 6 AWG may have white or gray marking at all terminal points. This can be paint or tape completely encircling the conductor. For grounded conductors larger than 6 AWG that simply pass through an enclosure without termination, such as those within a pull box, re-identification is not required. Ungrounded conductors The Code does not specify which colors to use except not white, gray, or green. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist