>Field failures are expensive, but the cost of a PIC programmer is very little per unit accross >all the production lots. I agree that Microchip is not a good silicon designer or a software developer. Nor Microchip's demo kits are perfect designed. However if its silicon are so bad, I bet it had been close the door long time ago. Many of the Microchip chips has a silicon errata more than 5 pages. Rule of thumb is: the newer the chip, the more silicon erratas it has. However, once you figured out know how to make it work, It works like a charm. It doesn't matter you use a ICD2 or a PICKit2, or a PM2, or a PM3, or a third part toolset to program it. If it works, then it works. This is one of the reason why we are still in love with Microchip. Funny N. Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.com -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist