Apptech wrote:
>>>  ... ~ $US100,000 price tag gives an idea of
>>> what it takes to achieve that result at present.
>>>       
>
>   
>> A dream you can touch, hold, buy, and most surprisingly, 
>> actually drive.
>> Must update my dictionary, unless you meant to say the 
>> Tesla is dreamy.
>>     
>
> I think that "dream" would meet a fair chunk of common 
> usage.
> "Dream car" doesn't mean doesn't exist - just means 'stupid' 
> that it exists :-) - even if I'd want some of the dream cars 
> around.
>
> You can also buy a Hydrogen fuelled car. Odds are that for 
> $100k you could have a car AND your own refulling station. 
> Not that that makes it practical.
>
>
>
>         Russell
>   
Using thundersky LiFe cells It becomes a feasible proposition provided 
you don't need 2 second 0-100 times.
Pricing is ~$1.40 an amp hour (3.3v nominal cell voltage so 42 cents per 
watt hour).

In practise electric conversions of existing vehicles get between 150 
and 300 watt hours per KM (power taken to charge / distance driven).
150 is a smallish lightweight car with good aerodynamics.
300 is the American "truck" aka SUV aka overblown ute ;->
An average conversion of a typical "small car (mazda 2 - mazda 3 size) 
seems to be around 200.

So for 100KM range (enough for my average daily trip, covering 3 offices)
best case 15KWh = $6300
worst case 30Kwh = $12600

Cost of a fill at 7 cents Kwh (off peak domestic in Sydney Australia) 
$1.05 - $2.10

Petrol vehicle comparison
best fuel economy = fiat punto 4.4L (diesel) per 100 km combined city 
country (typically this is below what is achieved in real life)
average = Mitsubishi colt 7L /100km - mazda 3 8.8L /100km
Bad = Jeep Grand Cherokee 14 L / 100km

Current diesel price $1.80
Current petrol price = $1.55

Best case for the 100km trip = $7.92 (petrol = 6.82)
average = $13.64
worst = $21

Best case (for fossil fuel)
$1.50 (highish electric) vs best petrol $7.92 = $6.42 better off in an 
electric car.
Battery pack size = 20Kwh = $8400
Payoff = 1308 trips = 4.3 years @ 300 trips per year

Average comparison.
$1.50 (highish electric) vs average petrol $13.64 = 12.14
Battery pack size = 20Kwh = $8400
Payoff = 692 trips = 2.3 years @ 300 trips per year

Worst case comparison
$2.10 (high electric) vs average petrol $21 = 18.9
Battery pack size = 36Kwh = $15120
Payoff = 800 trips = 2.6 years @ 300 trips per year

Rated for 1000-3000 cycles depending on depth of discharge
Batteries look pretty good to me eh?
36kwh pack will give you roughly 70Kw-140Kw worth of output power 
(depending on temperature and how long you want the cells to last) which 
is pretty zippy off the line.
For generating the power in the first place that is a harder case to 
close, however a solar concentrator based steam turbine/Stirling that 
utilises most of the available roof area is looking like it will come in 
at the $10k ball park. So to remove you from hydrocarbon (or nuclear) 
energy dependence your looking at between $20k and $40k (probably closer 
to the $40k by the time you put in a bigass lead acid bank to charge 
during the day) plus labour etc.

With luck my company will start selling lifestyle conversions(house + 
car off grid) in the next 1 to 2 years, anybody interested,payback looks 
like around 10 years or so at current energy prices ;->?
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