Olin Lathrop wrote:
> James Nick Sears wrote:
>   
>> I'm sure all the n00bs that get busted up in here have glanced in the
>> general direction of the datasheet.
>>     
>
> Unfortunately, all too often they haven't.  If they did, we wouldn't get
> stupid questions like which pin RB1 was on, for example.
>
> I don't understand why we have to keep rehashing this. 
Perhaps its because other people feel differently to you? Not just one 
either, my god other people have feelings? what a revelation.
Just as you feel its your right to tell people to RTFM however harshly 
you feel like, others feel its their right to tell you to STFU and be 
nice about things for a change.

>  If someone asks a
> dumb question that is clearly and directly answered in the datasheet right
> where you'd expect to find it, I and Jan-Erik and Wouter and a bunch of
> others will probably tell them to RTFM.  
Datasheets run upwards of 300 pages, and then there are the 5 other 
datasheets that all interact with the one for the component in question, 
perhaps when somebody has had a PIC for a week expecting them to be 
fluent with ~1500 pages of deeply technical datasheet on the chance that 
the thing they are interested in may be covered on one of those pages 
may be a little high perhaps? Some people don't have English as their 
first language (and looking at the extended character set in the OP's 
name I think he is a prime example), and even those that do may on 
occasion just not have the right key words in their mind when looking 
for something.

> Complaining about us saying that is
> totally pointless and a waste of time.
As is complaining about us telling you to be nice, or at least not a 
arrogant bastard ;->
>   I don't care if you think it's right
> or not, 
And i don't care if you think i'm right or not either. I bet i can pee 
higher though.
> I'm going to continue to say RTFM when I think it's appropriate.
Nobody says don't say RTFM.
The thing people take issue with is when you say "RTFM you lazy idiot"
Saying instead "This is covered on page 9 of the datasheet" as the start 
and end of the response would be perfectly acceptable, nobody would take 
issue with that.

see the difference is the "lazy idiot" part
or perhaps "didn't you even read?"
Its the bit where you tell the person, that because they aren't as 
knowledgeable as you they shouldn't have dared ask a question.

If everybody has to learn everything from first principles then society 
must by definition stop technological progress. (I'm fairly sure the 
pilot of the 747 isnt that up on the chemical process whereby the 
titanium for the blades is refined.)
Whilst people use things without a complete understanding of everything 
that went into them there will always be "stupid questions" because the 
person asking the question is more interested in solving the problem 
than learning about a whole bunch of stuff that once their problem is 
solved, they no longer need to know.

I bet somewhere out there there is a field that even Olin has some 
interest in that he doesn't know everything about, and just maby there 
is the chance olin could ask a dumb question.

Perhaps some role playing
Why is there an Accelerando above the 4th line of the toccata en fugue?  
(assuming that for some reason Olin likes the pipe organ)
may perhaps spring up on a forum somewhere
then there's the reply
"Your so lazy didn't you even read Heimlics treatis on Bach well I'm not 
doing your homework for you go read the book and then you will know"

*gasp* Olin was actually just playing it because he wanted to help his 
local scout troop out by playing the spooky music for their Halloween 
play, not because he wanted to be an expert in musical appreciation and 
the worlds number one pipe organist (magle).

Wouldn't he rather have somebody say
"Its because in an old style pipe organ it could take the bellows some 
time to respond to the air demands of the 7th line, playing that section 
a bit quicker made the next line with all the bassy stuff sound fuller, 
on an electric powered organ don't worry about it, all this stuff is 
covered in Heimlics treatis on Bach which has all this stuff in it and 
is basically the best reference your going to find"

That person has now saved Olin $50 worth of books, 10 days worth of time 
reading the thing, and the scout troop actually gets decent sounding 
spooky music for their show.

>   If
> Russell and others can stop complaining about that, maybe I won't start
> complaining to them whenever they answer such a question instead of teaching
> the OP a lesson and telling him to RTFM.
>
>   
Perhaps the lesson is in assisting the person with the item they are 
having trouble with and showing them the error of their ways rather than 
teaching them them dislike you personally.
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