On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Alan B. Pearce wrote: >>> Frankly, the ones that can't be bothered aren't worth the bother anyway. >>> ... >> >>I saw this same elitist argument on slashdot a few years ago when the >>easy-to-install Linux distributions came about. ... >> >>The argument was just as wrong for Linux, as it's wrong here. ... > > I don't believe the argument is wrong here. Things like Linux installations > can be made easier by suitable install programs. Yes programming MCUs can be > made easier by using high level languages but that is defeating the purpose > of learning the chip. For you perhaps, but not for everyone. Some of us do MCU projects because of the MCU. Others do MCU projects because of the projects. Most of us are somewhere in between. But out in the real world most people don't give 2 craps about an MCU, but they might have an interesting project they want to make happen. Are you guys really saying that you think that's a bad thing? Whether you think it's a bad thing or not, it's happening. The barrier to entry is lowering and people are getting projects up and running from zero knowledge in record time thanks to the combination of growing power/mm^2 and higher level languages and tools and libraries to leverage that power. Ever hear of Arduino? 99% of the projects people do here with PICs could be done with Arduino just as well and in far less time. The only thing you miss is the 1337 h4x04 status of hacking your own ASM code. But you know what? The people doing those projects don't care. They're happy doing interesting work and getting positive feedback and press for it. Is this to say that everything can be done in HLL and that there's no need for experts? Of course not. I actually do most of my MCU work in PIC work in C, because I value my time more than I value the puzzle of getting ASM code working (yes, I do enjoy that too, but I also enjoy a lot of other things that I don't have time to do, and the money I make from completing projects -- not just embedded stuff, but also web, software, design, etc), but this project, because I'm going to squeeze it onto a 10F demands that I write ASM. Great, the right tool for the right job at the right time. But if there's a way to make things easier for people, to deride that just because the people that benefit don't share your singular devotion to the PIC microcontroller platform is asinine. I understand the importance of struggle en route to mastery. But what you don't understand is that mastery is not everyone's end goal in every undertaking. Some people actually see this stuff as a means to an end. -n. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist