> All too often today's students try to short cut their assignments by asking > for answers at the first sign of trouble. They seem to have forgotten the > purpose of the assignment is not the end result, but the process which is > intended to foster learning. But it's also the way how today they teach students in many schools. They don't teach how to thinking or solving problems or gathering information from books / internet. They teach only how to pass exams and then the trouble starts when the first problem occurs at their very first job. I remember I was learning assembly of the 6502 when I was 15, I had an Apple II and there was no other book than some German ones - and of course I did not speak German at all, but still could get all the trouble to get it understand and got all information out what I needed. Also reverse engineering was a very good teacher of mine - I think now if you just pass a solution of a multiplication to a student they will use it but don't really bother to get it understand what it does and how it works. I hope now there will be some response saying the opposite I said and tell me how I am wrong as students are very much interested on understanding these. Maybe Wouter could tell me his experience with his pupils? Tamas On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote: > Apptech wrote: > > It's very very very hard for an expert > > to realise how very very hard some "utterly trivial" matters > > can seem. > > Those of us who know this stuff all learned it at some point. And us old > farts had to do that without the internet with its enourmous library and > world wide experts to answer questions. As a result, we had to sit down > and > actually *think* about a problem and maybe experiment instead of blurting > out a question the moment we got stuck. > > Now don't get me wrong. I think the internet can be a great learning tool > and should be used as such, but a infinite amount of immediately available > information is not in itself a teacher. In fact, it can sometimes prevent > or delay true learning because it's too easy to just look up a answer when > needed. That gets you the answer, but it doesn't mean you have learned the > principles to come up the answer yourself next time. > > All too often today's students try to short cut their assignments by asking > for answers at the first sign of trouble. They seem to have forgotten the > purpose of the assignment is not the end result, but the process which is > intended to foster learning. > > Maybe a basic introduction to microcontrollers would have some value, but > there is plenty of existing material out there. The PIC datasheets are > actually a very good source since they tell you what you need to know and > are well written. > > My first introduction to the subject was when my high school got a PDP-8 > (sortof a 12 bit PIC in a rack mounted box) my junior year. I had only > interacted with computers via Basic and Fortran before. I took the manual > home over spring vacation and figured I'd learn this computer's language. > What I found was totally different than expected. I hadn't thought about a > computer at the instruction level before. There was this huge gap between > Basic code and these instructions to the point where I couldn't even see > how > the two related. I remember wondering how I missed the multiply and divide > instructions because I knew I could multiply and divide in Basic. Then I > got to some example code that implemented a multiply, and it slowly started > to make sense. > > I probably read the two books three times each during that week, each time > filling in information that was so out of context in the previous pass that > it didn't make any sense then. By the time school started again, I could > toggle in simple programs and had a reasonable understanding what was going > on. When I got stuck, I had to figure it out. None of the teachers knew > any of this stuff. There was nobody else to ask. I had no choice but to > sit down and actually learn it. > > The point is, all the information was in the two manuals, just like all the > similar information is in a PIC datasheet. All it takes is motivation and > some effort. I did it with the equivalent of a PIC manual in one week in > 1973 with no internet and nobody to ask, not even the computer to > experiment > with until I'd read the manuals three times. > > So no, I don't have much tolerance for someone whining about how the PIC > manuals are so hard, especially when the vast library of the internet, the > PIC simulator, and the PICs themselves are readily available. I have no > problem helping someone when they get stuck, but they have to have tried to > do their own homework first. > > Frankly, the ones that can't be bothered aren't worth the bother anyway. > Those that have a true passion for electronics and microcontrollers are > going to preservere, and will be better off for having put in their own > effort. Those that don't have the passion will only ever be mediocre > engineers at best, and would be better off finding something else to do. > > By the way, I still have one of the two book, the DEC "Small Computers > Handbook". > > > ******************************************************************** > Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products > (978) 742-9014. Gold level PIC consultants since 2000. > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > -- Rudonix DoubleSaver http://www.rudonix.com -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist