I left the list a couple of months ago but recently decided to take a look at it to see if my feelings had changed. Seeing this current thread and traversing completely through it has caused my feelings to change but not in a positive way. Olin is a busy man who is educated, intelligent, and fully employed. He does not market the piclist with his products or troll for customers. He doesn't help people in order to stroke his ego. He helps because he is a generous person. That's a lot more than I can say about the group of small-minded, hateful people who have been using this thread to trash him publicly. Some of you couch it in a long-winded preachy fashion and some of you in more grumpy ways. Some attempt to dissect him as you would a frog in science class. All are equally mean-spirited. Why is the trashing of Olin allowed to continue? Simple. Some of the piclist moderators are among the cruelest attackers. Over the years, the piclist has changed. It's been dumbed-down. Any topic seems to be allowed now in EE and OT. I'm speaking particularly of "announcement" and "newsy" posts. As if there aren't websites with tech news already. The piclist used to be a place where people posted questions and got answers. If you came up with a new algorithm or circuit you could post it and get a critique. What's to be done? Like Olin, I am also an educated, intelligent, fully employed person who is very busy. I don't "need" the piclist. My ego doesn't need stroking. But I am willing to put some effort into fixing what I perceive to be wrong. Do I think this can happen? Unlikely, as those who think the piclist is fine the way it is won't like it. They'll probably need to leave the piclist completely although I am not interested in a hostile takeover. I'll need help, too, so I'd like to hear from people who think this is a good idea. But I am offering to help so please take me seriously. Or publicly trash me. Since you're running out of ways to trash Olin, this may come as a welcome alternative. I'll monitor the piclist for a little while and measure the response. Cheerful regards, Bob -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist