> ...and I have also met [Olin] personally at one of the Masters conference > and personally he is really a nice guy !! Thus far I've avoided comment because I cherish the S/N ratio we usually experience but I have to comment on this one. This to me is absolutely the most direct argument for a ban. From what I've seen, Olin is the kind of guy who's nice to his family, a good employer, and probably even a passable friend, but put him in a situation where he has no lasting consequences (for instance, being rude won't cost him the respect of his family/friends, cause a valuable employee to quit, or chase a client away from his business)(examples of this kind of thing include budging in the queue at the market, cutting people off in traffic, being an ass to people in a public information exchange) and he has no innate internal moral sense that tells him what is right and what is wrong. For anyone on this list who has silently gritted their teeth after being cutoff in traffic, or who quietly stood by and let the pushy kid budge in the queue, or has otherwise been slighted by someone whose scruples end where the consequences do, just once let's pull that guy over, take away his keys and say "We don't appreciate that conduct and you aren't welcome here. We've offered to let you play by the rules and you've thumbed your nose." Mike H. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist