For 1x1 inch, reverse engineering hardware will not take so long time as 30minutes... with or without epoxi (exception for multilayer and more than 50 SMD components which have plenty room on such PCB). I have doubts someone will bother to copy the firmware of a simple product, it's much easy (and less expensive) to understand the functionality of the product and write own firmware. Vasile On 6/7/08, James E. Lawson wrote: > > > http://www.flylogic.net/blog/ > no matter what you do if people are determined enough they can get to your firmware, however if your product is infact a micro and just a few transistors then I wouldn't even bother with the epoxy as it's going to add about 1/2 an hour tops to any serious reverse engineering attempt (the ones your worried about). However if your aim is to sell very little hardware at high cost epoxying it up and having complex functionality will fool all but the most technical audiance. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tamas Rudnai [mailto:tamas.rudnai@gmail.com] > Sent: Fri 06/06/2008 17:43 > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. > Subject: Re: [PIC]: How to protect a small circuit from being hacked? > > Hi John, > > I have a really simple hw too, I do not care if someone copies the circuit, > they can't do anything without the fw. I just use code protection on, and it > makes really difficult to read the fw out of the chip - although it's not > entirely impossible. But for this they have to have a very expensive tool > set + knowledge how to do and what to do - I think this product does not > worth that much... > > With the epoxy, AFAIK it works well, but do not count on protecting of your > intellectual property with that. They will break it or grind it off if they > really want, and even if components breaks off the panel, all they need is > the wiring and the type of the components you were using, isn't it? They > will put it under xray, buying 10 or 50 or whatever amount they need to > succeed so do not worry, if someone wants to steal it they will. Only not if > they can do it cheaper using their own engineering department... > > Have you considered patenting it - if that is something new? > > Tamas > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 5:02 PM, John Waters > wrote: > > > > > Hi All, I have a small circuit that is make up by a PIC, a few transistors > > and resistors. The physical size of the PCB is about 1" x 1". I don't want > > my product being copied when sold to the market, but the circuit is really > > so simple that everyone could easily reproduce it by tracing the PCB. In > > fact, most of the value of this product lies in the firmware. I'm thinking > > of using some epoxy or what to totally seal up the circuit so that when a > > hacker breaks open it, the circuit will be damaged. But I worry that the > > epoxy may introduce capacitance or other interference to the circuit. Will > > this way work, or is there other better thing than epoxy that could be used? > > Other than this method, could there be other solutions? > > Thanks in advance! John > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate > > crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! > > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > > View/change your membership options at > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > > > > > -- > Rudonix DoubleSaver > http://www.rudonix.com > > > > > ************************************************************************* > The information contained in this email message is confidential. > It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are > not the intended recipient(s) you are hereby notified that any > circulation or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this email in error please notify us immediately by e-mailing > postmaster@leggott.ac.uk then please destroy the email and any > copies of it. Your co-operation is appreciated. > ************************************************************************* > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist