> Yes, my first post here many years ago as a complete newbie was an attack on me by Olin. ... I think many of us got this. I still remember, my face went red once but then when it got back to normal I thought it over again, and actually he had right - I did not have time to look into docs and Olin I think got enough of 'stupid' posts so I got a slap - it happens. Nobody died. Well I still respect him very much especially as he's the evangelist of assembly development which I quite agree with. I think the list was a bit more active when he he was more active, now I barely can see any [PIC] tags which is a bit weird in piclist. I still believe that this list is the most engineering one though, and because of couple of slaps I would not give it up reading it - do not have to take everything personally. Regards, Tamas On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:46 PM, fred jones wrote: > > Yes, my first post here many years ago as a complete newbie was an attack > on me by Olin. Said I was lazy and he didn't have time to do my work for > me. In fact, he must have spent 20 or 30 minutes on the very long email to > explain why I was lazy and the criteria it took to get him to reply to a > post with help. Yes, Olin is one of the sharpest on the list, and even I > would welcome his full participation, but I don't think he is capable of > behaving himself or acting civil. Whether he likes it or not he brought on > whatever treatment he gets here all by himself. > > > > Subject: Re: [ADMIN]: Question about member > > From: mailinglist4@farcite.net > > To: piclist@mit.edu > > Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:22:09 -0400 > > > > On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 13:57 -0500, PAUL James wrote: > >> Admins, > >> > >> I don't want to start a feud, and I'm trying to be helpful here, so bear > >> with me. > >> > >> I have spoken to Olin Lathrop recently, and he feels that he is getting > >> treated in ways that the general population isn't. > >> > >> I'm not sure what has happened to make him feel this way, but in my > >> opinion, from talking to him recently and based on past posts by him, > >> he has a lot of expertise to offer the list population. And if in fact > >> he is being treated differently than other members, couldn't bygones be > >> bygones, > >> and treat him like anyone else, and let him contribute to the list? > >> > >> Again, I'm not trying to cause a feud. I'm just trying to understand > >> what is going on, and asking that a member be treated like any other, > >> and allow > >> him to be a member in good standing, and contribute to a hugh resource > >> for the PIC comminuty. > >> > >> I firmly believe that the PICLIST is a case of synergy if ever there was > >> one. Every contributor adds just that much more. And the more > >> contributors, > >> the more resources we have to pull from. > >> > >> Anyway, please consider my request. > > > > I REALLY hope this doesn't turn into a huge flame war, but chances are > > it will, so please people, lets remain civil. > > > > For the new members of the list, a brief history, as I remember things: > > > > We had multiple cases where posts from Olin would result in vast flame > > wars. As was often the case, it wasn't exactly WHAT Olin was saying that > > was triggering things (although sometimes he did have personal attacks > > included), but how he said it. Olin can be very frank and direct, and > > due to cultural differences some saw this frankness as personal attacks. > > We had numerous cases of new members leaving the list due to a response > > from Olin (and we only know of the ones that TOLD us why they were > > leaving, who knows how many actually did). > > > > Despite numerous incidents Olin didn't seem interested in changing > > anything about how he responded to posts. > > > > He was kicked off the list multiple times. Each time, after a while, he > > requested to come back, with a promise that his posts would no longer > > "stir things up". Each time we agreed, and each time, for while, things > > were good. Eventually though things would again degrade. > > > > The final straw for us is we received messages from LONG time valuable > > contributors stating they were leaving the list because they were no > > longer interested in contributing to a list where Olin was. Due to Olin > > not being willing to modify how he responded to threads, the list was > > starting to loose long time contributing members that were capable of > > responding in ways that didn't inflame. > > > > The decision eventually was made to instead of simply booting Olin > > (since history showed that never worked), instead we would put him on > > the moderated list. > > > > FWIW, by default, all new members are automatically put on the moderated > > list, along with any posters that have caused issues (none that I can > > recall recently). > > > > Olin has stated that as long as he is on the moderated list, he will > > minimize his contributions. I for one am fine with that. I prefer a list > > where people aren't afraid to post a question simply because one member > > might strike them down for it. Trying to learn in an environment where > > the teacher will start yelling at you if they think your question isn't > > "good enough" is NOT a good way to learn, IMHO. > > > > I don't think any long time member can deny that since Olin has been on > > the moderated list the list has run very smoothly. I know from my Admin > > side it's been FAR easier maintaining the list since Olin was put on the > > moderated list. > > > > I personally don't see how taking him off the moderated list could ever > > work. It never worked before, and I've not heard ANYTHING from Olin to > > indicate it would work now (of course, Olin calling me a Nazi might be > > evidence that he doesn't want to have anything to do with me to begin > > with, so that may be why I haven't heard anything). > > > > Well, that's how I remember things, I'm sure if I'm way off on a point > > someone will correct me. > > > > TTYL > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > > View/change your membership options at > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > _________________________________________________________________ > Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft. > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ MakeCount > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > -- Rudonix DoubleSaver http://www.rudonix.com -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist