Yes, my first post here many years ago as a complete newbie was an attack o=
n me by Olin.  Said I was lazy and he didn't have time to do my work for me=
.  In fact, he must have spent 20 or 30 minutes on the very long email to e=
xplain why I was lazy and the criteria it took to get him to reply to a pos=
t with help.  Yes, Olin is one of the sharpest on the list, and even I woul=
d welcome his full participation, but I don't think he is capable of behavi=
ng himself or acting civil.  Whether he likes it or not he brought on whate=
ver treatment he gets here all by himself.


> Subject: Re: [ADMIN]: Question about member
> From: mailinglist4@farcite.net
> To: piclist@mit.edu
> Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:22:09 -0400
>
> On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 13:57 -0500, PAUL James wrote:
>> Admins,
>>
>> I don't want to start a feud, and I'm trying to be helpful here, so bear
>> with me.
>>
>> I have spoken to Olin Lathrop recently, and he feels that he is getting
>> treated in ways that the general population isn't.
>>
>> I'm not sure what has happened to make him feel this way, but in my
>> opinion, from talking to him recently and based on past posts by him,
>> he has a lot of expertise to offer the list population. And if in fact
>> he is being treated differently than other members, couldn't bygones be
>> bygones,
>> and treat him like anyone else, and let him contribute to the list?
>>
>> Again, I'm not trying to cause a feud. I'm just trying to understand
>> what is going on, and asking that a member be treated like any other,
>> and allow
>> him to be a member in good standing, and contribute to a hugh resource
>> for the PIC comminuty.
>>
>> I firmly believe that the PICLIST is a case of synergy if ever there was
>> one. Every contributor adds just that much more. And the more
>> contributors,
>> the more resources we have to pull from.
>>
>> Anyway, please consider my request.
>
> I REALLY hope this doesn't turn into a huge flame war, but chances are
> it will, so please people, lets remain civil.
>
> For the new members of the list, a brief history, as I remember things:
>
> We had multiple cases where posts from Olin would result in vast flame
> wars. As was often the case, it wasn't exactly WHAT Olin was saying that
> was triggering things (although sometimes he did have personal attacks
> included), but how he said it. Olin can be very frank and direct, and
> due to cultural differences some saw this frankness as personal attacks.
> We had numerous cases of new members leaving the list due to a response
> from Olin (and we only know of the ones that TOLD us why they were
> leaving, who knows how many actually did).
>
> Despite numerous incidents Olin didn't seem interested in changing
> anything about how he responded to posts.
>
> He was kicked off the list multiple times. Each time, after a while, he
> requested to come back, with a promise that his posts would no longer
> "stir things up". Each time we agreed, and each time, for while, things
> were good. Eventually though things would again degrade.
>
> The final straw for us is we received messages from LONG time valuable
> contributors stating they were leaving the list because they were no
> longer interested in contributing to a list where Olin was. Due to Olin
> not being willing to modify how he responded to threads, the list was
> starting to loose long time contributing members that were capable of
> responding in ways that didn't inflame.
>
> The decision eventually was made to instead of simply booting Olin
> (since history showed that never worked), instead we would put him on
> the moderated list.
>
> FWIW, by default, all new members are automatically put on the moderated
> list, along with any posters that have caused issues (none that I can
> recall recently).
>
> Olin has stated that as long as he is on the moderated list, he will
> minimize his contributions. I for one am fine with that. I prefer a list
> where people aren't afraid to post a question simply because one member
> might strike them down for it. Trying to learn in an environment where
> the teacher will start yelling at you if they think your question isn't
> "good enough" is NOT a good way to learn, IMHO.
>
> I don't think any long time member can deny that since Olin has been on
> the moderated list the list has run very smoothly. I know from my Admin
> side it's been FAR easier maintaining the list since Olin was put on the
> moderated list.
>
> I personally don't see how taking him off the moderated list could ever
> work. It never worked before, and I've not heard ANYTHING from Olin to
> indicate it would work now (of course, Olin calling me a Nazi might be
> evidence that he doesn't want to have anything to do with me to begin
> with, so that may be why I haven't heard anything).
>
> Well, that's how I remember things, I'm sure if I'm way off on a point
> someone will correct me.
>
> TTYL
> --
> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

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