On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 13:57 -0500, PAUL James wrote:
> Admins,
>  
> I don't want to start a feud, and I'm trying to be helpful here, so bear
> with me.
>  
> I have spoken to Olin Lathrop recently, and he feels that he is getting
> treated in ways that the general population isn't.
>  
> I'm not sure what has happened to make him feel this way, but in my
> opinion, from talking to him recently and based on past posts by him,
> he has a lot of expertise to offer the list population.   And if in fact
> he is being treated differently than other members, couldn't bygones be
> bygones,
> and treat him like anyone else, and let him contribute to the list?
>  
> Again, I'm not trying to cause a feud.  I'm just trying to understand
> what is going on, and asking that a member be treated like any other,
> and allow
> him to be a member in good standing, and contribute to a hugh resource
> for the PIC comminuty.  
>  
> I firmly believe that the PICLIST is a case of synergy if ever there was
> one.  Every contributor adds just that much more.  And the more
> contributors, 
> the more resources we have to pull from.
>  
> Anyway, please consider my request.

I REALLY hope this doesn't turn into a huge flame war, but chances are
it will, so please people, lets remain civil.

For the new members of the list, a brief history, as I remember things:

We had multiple cases where posts from Olin would result in vast flame
wars. As was often the case, it wasn't exactly WHAT Olin was saying that
was triggering things (although sometimes he did have personal attacks
included), but how he said it. Olin can be very frank and direct, and
due to cultural differences some saw this frankness as personal attacks.
We had numerous cases of new members leaving the list due to a response
from Olin (and we only know of the ones that TOLD us why they were
leaving, who knows how many actually did).

Despite numerous incidents Olin didn't seem interested in changing
anything about how he responded to posts.

He was kicked off the list multiple times. Each time, after a while, he
requested to come back, with a promise that his posts would no longer
"stir things up". Each time we agreed, and each time, for while, things
were good. Eventually though things would again degrade.

The final straw for us is we received messages from LONG time valuable
contributors stating they were leaving the list because they were no
longer interested in contributing to a list where Olin was. Due to Olin
not being willing to modify how he responded to threads, the list was
starting to loose long time contributing members that were capable of
responding in ways that didn't inflame.

The decision eventually was made to instead of simply booting Olin
(since history showed that never worked), instead we would put him on
the moderated list.

FWIW, by default, all new members are automatically put on the moderated
list, along with any posters that have caused issues (none that I can
recall recently).

Olin has stated that as long as he is on the moderated list, he will
minimize his contributions. I for one am fine with that. I prefer a list
where people aren't afraid to post a question simply because one member
might strike them down for it. Trying to learn in an environment where
the teacher will start yelling at you if they think your question isn't
"good enough" is NOT a good way to learn, IMHO.

I don't think any long time member can deny that since Olin has been on
the moderated list the list has run very smoothly. I know from my Admin
side it's been FAR easier maintaining the list since Olin was put on the
moderated list.

I personally don't see how taking him off the moderated list could ever
work. It never worked before, and I've not heard ANYTHING from Olin to
indicate it would work now (of course, Olin calling me a Nazi might be
evidence that he doesn't want to have anything to do with me to begin
with, so that may be why I haven't heard anything).

Well, that's how I remember things, I'm sure if I'm way off on a point
someone will correct me.

TTYL
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