On May 8, 2008, at 4:20 PM, Tamas Rudnai wrote: > If he let's you see the source, that software is definitely open There's something not quite right about that. LONG before "open source" was a buzzword, it was common for computer companies to provide source code to universities and/or paying customers, under "license agreements" of varying fierceness. And the universities and customers would customize things, fix bugs, and etc, sometimes providing the new code and/or patches back to the owner and/or to other source licensees. It was sweet, as long as you were on "the list" of people with source access. The most (in)famous example was unix itself, which was essentially free to most universities, and essentially inaccessible to commercial firms. So I think the MINIMUM requirements for "open source" have to include: 1) ANYONE can see the source. 2) For free. Usually we add: 3) Anyone may compile/etc and USE the SOURCE "locally." Preferably without undo trouble. I've a bit of a sore spot for things where you have to provide additional source to get something to work, even in its original environment. (BASIC52 seems to be like this, last time I looked. The source is available, but it doesn't include the low- level IO routines, even for the original target CPU.) (This gets complicated in embedded environments, of course. See below.) Most of the annoyances show up when we start talking about re-selling the open source software in some form. This used to be not much of an issue; programs were self-contained bits of code that ran in a very standardized environment. Then came "code-reuse" (including libraries) and embedded systems, where a small, hand-held device might contain source derived from a dozen different sources other than the company selling the device. Messy; very messy. (It's worth pointing out that Stallman grew up in the former environment. GPL and similar are a lot more sensible sounding in an environment where you sell "pure software" in a mainframe-like computing environment.) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist