What makes a good discussion list: Focus on the topic. Not too little or too much traffic. A mix of newbies and experts. Admins who enforce the rules. Right now the piclist is losing on all counts. In years past, [OT] more engineering related than [EE] is now. The piclist has too much traffic. New posts should mostly be asking questions, not unsolicited "hey, look at this" posts. Newbies leave the list now in horror. Experts are backing away. When violations of the rules are pointed out, the rules are changed to accomodate the offenders. Until recently I thought Russell was the big problem. But now I realize I should blame James Newton. I must first point out that they are both well-intentioned guys, but since they are brothers, James can not keep Russell in check and has no objectivity. When I say "brothers" I mean it in the "band of brothers" sense, they have a deep bond that was cemented with a shared experience a few years ago. If I was a list admin I would not add tags or suggest people filter to avoid Russell. I would forbid Russell from starting threads or kick him off the list. But I do not want to be a list admin, so I will not challenge James. I will leave. I don't expect the piclist will change much, but it is not my list. I like the piclist of years past, but it is no more. I think I'll join the Microchip forum and maybe someday I'll find an EE list or forum somewhere that has admins that share my spirit. Thanks for the ride. Cheerful regards, Bob -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and love email again -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist