> [SCI] or [OE] - Any topic whatsoever which has a basis in > experimental or > measurable facts. This explicitly includes cases, like GW, > where people > disagree over what is a fact! I'll bite, although I should just be biting my tongue at this stage. If you exclude subjects where real scientists are doing real science and disagree over facts then you disallow in theory everything and in practice many things. In true Science there are NO facts - only theories whose predictions match observed events more or less closely. In practice there are many areas where the fine details are under active debate. The generally accepted age of the universe goes up and down over time. It's settled down to a fairly stable value for several years now and is long over due for the next big discovery that will totally change it. The Higg's boson and friends are or aren't waiting in the wings to blow away the current flavours of relevant reality. Neutrinos may or may not be blowing through the earth, changing colour between 3 hues as they come so that we only see 1/3rd of them in our detectors - or the sun may have gone out a while ago and not told us. And neutrinos may have rests mass or may have imaginary mass or ... . Quantum mechanics never has and is never allowed to make sense. So too GW, for wont of a better label, is dependent on much science which can be discussed rationally and calmly by all those interested saints. And somewhat rationally and somewhat calmly by the rest of us. For example, the fact that NASA reports based on NASA satellite data shows that Antarctic ice melting is at an almost 20 year low and at 40% of the 20 year average is something which those interested, if any, could discuss the implications of. El Nino and La Ninyas and xxx oscillations and more could be happily exchanged without venturing too too far into the realms of mysticism and religion. The 112 page peer reviewed report that I tabled that shows that there is no known CO2 / greenhouse mechanism known to science is a potential lurch towards the edge but, if some common sense remains, its merits could be discussed without having to set up a new religion or join an old one. Arbitrarily tossing out GW because of the inconvenient excesses of some smacks of the book burnings of yore. Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist