As many an older engineer will testify, form is often an overlooked part of function. It's a myopic view of the system requirements that separates the two. If the goal is to have happy customers, or happy users, or sell the maximum amount of widgets, and it always boils down to that or the engineer doesn't get paid, form and function go hand in hand. A device (or piece of software) that doesn't get used as much as could be isn't the best engineered device for the job. It may be that some of the criteria are outside of the engineer's specialty, but that shouldn't place it outside his/her responsibility. The most fru-fru example I can think of right now would be a hood ornament on a car. They exist, so it isn't invention or unseen possibility, but it is pretty much pure 'form' and not much function. The engineer has as much reason to find out if, or what kind of, ornament improves sales from a specialist as he does to consult structural engineers for fender ideas or electrical engineers for connectors and systems. Then, he applies the 'system' requirement of maximizing sales (a requirement of any business or product) with engineering to design an ornament that is consistent with other design goals (wind resistance perhaps) and good practice for manufacturing and useful life. I've found that the engineers that seem to get told "design what we tell you to inside the box" aren't very good at articulating why their views on the rest of the box are relevant or impact the common goal. So, as an engineer, I value function with form, knowing that at least where humans are involved (even human engineers) there are subtle efficiencies to be had throughout the whole of the lifetime of whatever device or software I design that aren't 'just' form or function alone. I also benefit from these efficiencies (even as an engineer) should I be the engineer who has to use it. Peter Onion wrote: > On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 09:51 -0400, Dr Skip wrote: > > Probably because this list is mostly populated by engineers, who value > function over form :) > > PeterO > > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist