Howard Winter wrote:

>> In Germany at that time they almost were. Catholics in Germany pay (and
>> paid at that time) taxes levied by the government and repassed to the
>> Catholic Church.
> 
> Good grief, I had no idea any government collected taxes ("tythe") for
> the church!  And I believe elsewhere that you said they still do? 

They still do. It can almost be considered voluntary, in that it is very
easy to get out: just go to city hall and change that part of your public
record into "no (formal) religion". 

But for some reason very few do that (or did it; it's been a while that I
looked at the stats). You're generally made part of a formal church shortly
after birth, with your first public record, and even though there are many
who are not really practicing members of a church, many of those still have
the "religion" part of their public record unchanged and pay church tax. 

This tells some things about Germans, and about churches in Germany; the
churches don't have to participate in this. (And if you thought "well, of
course they do" then this tells a bit about what you think of churches, too
:)


>>>> IMO public schools is what made the industrial revolution successful
>>>> -- and capitalism, FWIW. Is there any country with a certain degree
>>>> of development that achieved this without public schools?
>>> 
>>> It's an interesting question, AFAIK were no "public schools" in the
>>> modern sense in England (the birthplace of Industrial Revolution). 
>> 
>>> So they were "private schools" in the modern sense, because they had to 
>>> compete for students. 
>> 
>> What is in England called a "public school" is not what we're talking about
>> -- you'd have to change that phrase above into "Is there any country with a
>> certain degree of development that achieved this without state (financed)
>> schools?"
> 
> Good catch, as you say, what we call "Public Schools" are actually
> fee-paying, such as Eton, Harrow and so on. 
> 
>> In England, these schools are called "state schools", according to
>> Wikipedia. And the first of these was founded in 700 AD, according to
>> Wikipedia :) 
>> 
>> I'm not sure how important the system of state schools was in the 19th
>> and 20th century in the UK. 
> 
> Very!  The school I went to was founded in 1537 during the reign of
> Elizabeth I, and it was, and still is, very highly thought of.  You went
> there at age 11, and had to be accepted based on your academic
> achievements so far (and an interview) but that was it, no fees.  

Thanks, Howard. I suspected that much. So it seems that England doesn't
count as a country that achieved a certain degree of development without
schools directly financed by the government ("public schools" in the US,
"state schools" in the UK). 

Gerhard

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