I agree that in the broad scope, religion is some about believing and some about money. I agree also that some is cultic and maybe a little about control. All these are reasonable and valid observations. But I wonder if some about "salvation" is included in some about believing because not all religions or religious cults are focused on salvation. It is for some that the quest for salvation is not about money or power. Not all Christian religions are the same flavor. Should this not be taken into account is any assessment of social impact? Some one also mentioned about religion in history. No doubt the pages of history would have been written very differently without religions, or religious influence. But at different periods in history religions expressed different ethical and spiritual postures and impacted the social order in a different way. Christianity would most likely have died out if the collapse of the Roman Empire had not been as dramatic. The survival of the Catholic Church is directly related to the collapse of Roman government. It is also possible that if Christianity had collapsed Islam might not have developed at all. Painting all religions with the same broad brush and collaring them all the same color seems open to question. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vasile Surducan" To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Who is to blame > Usually James is closing such topics fast, maybe it's busy now... > > Any religion cult (like the piclist) has it's own voluntarism. Bygone now? > A part of that is about money, other part about believing, who knows > which is the bigger one. > A voluntary guy will be the same in US or Zambia, even in US will put > some money in the box at the end of the church service (maybe only by > shame, maybe not...) and in Zambia will shake only the hand of the > churchman...to poor for more. > > However, yes, not only christianity but any religion implies the > existence of totalitarism. > And the history shows that religion was the right hand of the leaders > in the comunist countries. And is still the right hand of the leaders > in all democratic countries. > So believe, but beware how. > > > > On 3/21/08, Gerhard Fiedler wrote: >> Rich wrote: >> >> > Is Christianity voluntary? >> >> Depends on where you live :) >> >> IMO it's so ingrained in the European and US culture (and some others) >> that >> when living there, accepting some of what came with it is not quite >> voluntary. You can try to live "against" some of that, but even then >> you're >> living it -- just from the other side :) >> >> I'm no Christian in the normal sense of the word, but I'm fully aware >> that >> part of what I think and feel is determined by my upbringing and my >> childhood experiences, which partly can be described as the ones of a boy >> growing up in a Christian culture. I didn't have much of a choice with >> that. >> >> Gerhard >> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >> View/change your membership options at >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >> > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist