Actually I paraphrased his quote. He said that governments do not learn from history. My use of "we" is in the general. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Who is to blame: Was: Using voucherstoimprovethequalityofschools(was:Educationreform) >I agree totally with your point. It is part of what I meant by politics in > the schools, thought it is only one element. When the school becomes a > political tool for politicians to exploit, then academics and students > suffer. Someone mentioned that the school system in New York in the 1930's > was quite exemplary. That was before politicians had gained control over > the entire academic system. > > But I would like to hear from someone as to whether or not the student > attitude has contributed in part to the decline of academic standards. > Are > teachers more constrained as to how they teach, what they teach and how > they > manage classroom control? If student attitudes have become problematic, > where do we see the origins of this? Even at the college level there are a > number of constraints on teachers as to how they interact with > undisciplined > students. Why are there undisciplined students in much larger numbers > today? It used to be that chewing gum in class was an infraction. Now it > can be much worse. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Gardner" > To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: [OT] Who is to blame: Was: Using vouchers > toimprovethequalityofschools(was:Educationreform) > > >>>> One notices Hegel did not write " I learn nothing from History"... >> >>> You are correct, he did not. I paraphrased, the phrase I said was "The >>> only >>> thing we learn from history is that we do not learn from history." Is >>> that >>> in dispute? >> >> Oh no. Point is, while we cannot individually change a moribund public >> school >> system, we - Many of us - can spare our children wasting years developing >> "self-esteem" at the expense of literacy, numeracy, and disciplined >> learning >> habits. >> >> If you can, and don't, the odds are good you'll wish you had... >> >> Jack >> >> >> >> On 3/17/08, Rich wrote: >>> You are correct, he did not. I paraphrased, the phrase I said was "The >>> only >>> thing we learn from history is that we do not learn from history." Is >>> that >>> in dispute? >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "John Gardner" >>> To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." >>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 3:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: [OT] Who is to blame: Was: Using vouchers to >>> improvethequalityofschools(was:Educationreform) >>> >>> >>> > One notices Hegel did not write " I learn nothing from History"... >>> > >>> > On 3/17/08, Gerhard Fiedler wrote: >>> >> Rich wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > My meaning was not to call anyone a communist but to point out that >>> >> > the >>> >> > idea that has been raised ( placing children's education with the >>> >> > state) >>> >> > has been exercised for political purposes [...] >>> >> >>> >> But (whether I agree with Cedric or not), it seemed to me that he >>> >> specifically said to /not/ place children's education with the state, >>> >> but >>> >> rather with a community that is a bit larger than the family. >>> >> >>> >> Which is also related to this: >>> >> >>> >> > One of the socio-political problems that America is faced with >>> >> > today >>> >> > is >>> >> > the breakdown of the family unit, and children having only one >>> >> > parent >>> >> > or >>> >> > no dependable parent to look up to. >>> >> >>> >> IMO the problem is not so much the breakdown of the family unit, but >>> >> the >>> >> fact that there is no other group around (anymore) that is able to >>> >> step >>> >> in, >>> >> in terms of education. >>> >> >>> >> Gerhard >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>> >> View/change your membership options at >>> >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>> >> >>> > -- >>> > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>> > View/change your membership options at >>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >>> View/change your membership options at >>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >>> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >> View/change your membership options at >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist