1) Is the educational system doing poorly ? Are students in the U.S. getting what they need ? I say .... yes 2) Who is to blame ? a) Parents a lot of parents are incompetent and ought to lose control of their children. I have thought a lot about this and have not come up with a viable solution. I think that infants and young children ought to be raised by committee. A committee of diverse people. I don't know how to accomplish this. I do know that some parents are poison to their children ; physically, psychologically and in terms of goal setting. When children reach the age of reason ( about 7 years ) , they should have an increasingly large vote in their upbringing and by the age of 13 they should be able to leave their parents if they wish. Parents should not "own" children. Nor ( most definitely ) should the state. b) Crummy friends, low achievers, neighborhood slackers. But hey..... maybe we need more slackers. c) Mediocre schools teach kids to learn on their own, expose them to all the opinions of people around the world, curtail jingoistic and patriotic mantras. Let them learn as fast or slow as they wish. Having grade levels is silly and antiquated. Such things are designed for teacher convenience and not for the students. cc -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist