On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 07:07:44AM -0400, Vitaliy wrote:
> Tony Smith wrote:
> > I'll add that in Australia, all schools receive some degree of Government
> > funding, be they public, private or whatever, including religious schools.
> > They public/private divide isn't so neat & tidy.  There is much grumbling
> > that private schools (funded by student fees) shouldn't receive this,
> > since
> > you are disadvantaging public schools (less cash)
> 
> You're kind of missing the point, Tony. The public schools are a means to an
> end, and the end is -- educated population. If parents choose to take the
> money away from the public schools, because they feel their kids can get a
> better education at a private school, that is perfectly alright. They are
> actually doing the society a favor by spending the money more efficiently.

I'm going to continue to pound on this argument. Private schools are not
better because they are more efficient. Private schools are better because
they are fueled by parents who are motivated to give their children the
best education, even if that means paying for it with their own funds.

Private schools start with a better self selected stock of students and
parents. It's a natural progression that produces a better product at the
end of the process.

But GIGO applies here. If the stock were the same as the public schools
stock, the result would be vastly different.

The question is not if private schools are better than public schools. The
question is what type of school system is best for all students, since the
goal is to education all students.

> 
> > and anyway, that's against
> > the point of private - you don't rely on Government handouts.
> 
> Did you not read my point #1, about education being a positive externality?
> And even if it wasn't, private schools would not need the "handouts" if the
> public school system wasn't a fully subsidized government monopoly.

We agree that public education isn't good for everyone. What we disagree on
is whether or not private education is better for everyone. That is a yet
to be proven point.

> > Vouchers won't work because this sort of scheme never does.
> 
> During our first year in the US, our family was receiving food stamps (can
> also be called "food vouchers"). I assure you they were spent as intended
> (to buy food).

Because there are restrictions keeping them from being used for other
purposes.

> There was a guy I know who had a very big family. The formula is flawed (you
> don't need ten times as many food stamps to feed ten kids), so he had a
> suplus of food stampls, and did in fact illegally convert them to cash. None
> of the kids suffered from malnutrition. So "this sort of scheme" definitely
> achieves the intended result, flawed as it may be.

Why not train the guy to get a job so he can feed his own kids?
I'll say no more because now we're getting off topic.

> > I simply sell
> > my vouchers for half price to my neighbours, and then go buy some booze
> > with
> > the cash.
> 
> It sounds like a valid concern, but:
> 
> 1. In the US, all children are required by law to attend school. Vouchers
> won't change that.

Agreed.

> 2. You wouldn't sell your kid's vouchers to buy booze, and neither would I.
> I stand by my assertion that most parents want the best for their children.

Disagree. There are millions of children whose parents could care less. If
your assertion were true, there wouldn't be a foster system, or situations
where child are not even with their parents. But we both know that lots of
kids end up fending for themselves.

> 3. Stealing your kid's vouchers is just another form of child abuse/neglect.
> In those rare cases when a parent is found to be not acting in the child's
> best interest, the same recourses would exist (e.g., assign a guardian).

Agree with everything but rare. And even more so children who's parents may
provide the basics, but frankly have no interest in improving their child's
education.

Some snippage to try to keep this shorter.

BAJ
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