Doom doom, again, still, alas. http://www.aviationweek.com:80/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/required022708.xml&headline=NASA%20Needs%20A%20Bigger%20Ares%20V&channel=space Design has fallen short of its necessary target weight to do its mission NASA style, and some very nasty options are being canvassed. As it is has 4 x Shuttle type SRB's extended from 4 to unproven 5 segment versions. Latest choices include adding an inert 1/2 segment per booster, or an active half segment to get more height for an increased evil Liquid Hydrogen *tank. Also mooted as possible is an extra RS-68 (total then 6) LH/LO motor. Detroit Diesel says 'There's no substitute for inches'. Russell * evil liquid Hydrogen is a special substance used by rocket engineers to make horrendously complex rocket stages that are far far far volumetrically larger than one could possibly imagine because the SG of LH is about 70 times that of gaseous air BUT about 14 times less dense than water. Add to that the complications of super cryo temperatures and super topping cycle engines run at a pressure that only a Russian rocket engineer could be happy with. The end result is an overall performance that is arguably inferior to what can be gained with the far far far less sexy LOX and kero. Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist