Wow! I can't remember the last time I seen so many ways to complicate a problem :-) A couple years ago I did some "interesting" (132 LEDs in three concentric circles) things with LEDs and encountered this same problem, I was using Eagle at the time. After a bit of reading the help files I figured out how to control it from a script file. Then it was just a little math to figure out where they needed to be which lead me to Excel... Eventually I had it set up to do all the math for placement and incrementing part names. One part per line. Then in another column I concatenated all the various fields together into a properly formatted command. Final step was just cut and paste that column into notepad, save and run it from within eagle. Since then I've used the technique about a dozen times, whenever I need something placed in some kind of array, or when a part has to meet an opening in an enclosure or something. It's really pretty easy once you've done it once. -Denny -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist