Apology: I was feeling annoyed to some extent that James had misrepresented my point in saying that I had perhaps misrepresented him. I THOUGHT that what I had written was clear enough and unambiguous enough. I now see that what I wrote was indeed able to be misunderstood and that it would be easy to jump to the "talking about God" conclusion. In the exchange: >> Ironically, the only LOGICAL thing to do is believe there >> is a GOD (Otherwise it's all kind of pointless, you >> know?) > At least you understand that point. > Which is an excellent first step. > Ma[n]y don't or can't understand that. I, realizing that the G__ topic would cause unnecessaryu sparks, was intending instead to comment on > ... Otherwise it's all kind of pointless, you know? ... [if god or whatever doesn't exist]. Stuff in square brackets added. I was attempting to comment on the realities of a "just happened" universe and that was what I meant that unmamed-and-much-beloved-list-owner would argue strenuously against. I see now that I inadvertently (really!) lead the conversation the wrong way. I even got a friendly comment offlist from someone who I confused by my lack of clarity - sorry! Russell -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist