Getting some work done that has to go out asap, so only a quick response to part of this >> While Hydrogen is at present mainly produced from >> hydrocarbon feedstocks this is certainly not the only way >> to >> do it and many other means exist and any long term and >> world >> scale use of Hydrogen must use non FOSSIL hydrocarbon >> feedstocks. > [snip] > What "other means"? Anything we can use today, on an > industrial scale? That's under active investigation. Some people, who tend to get labelled as shysters, claim that they have processes which input all sorts of organics and convert them into much more desirable and useful materials in periods of the order of hours. I would be more dubious than I am were it not that I have corresponded over some years with a man who is working on such a scheme. He has proven himself, as far as I can tell at this remove, to be competent technically, honest, helpful and enterprising. ie He seems to have his head screwed on right and to be a good guy. He is having all the usual problems with getting people interested in what he says he can do. That's all too often a formula for "doesn't really work but the guy is deluded and keeps on plugging away at it". I have no idea how good the following are but, as the dates on some are rather old it suggests that they may not all be 'top shelf' but, Gargoyling garbage to oil turns up these, amongst many many others http://itotd.com/articles/205/oil-from-garbage/ Quality varies, as always. _____________________________ I saw this one on TV I believe MIT say that it works fwiw. Whether its viable is the issue http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/13218/?a=f In April 2003, the first commercial thermo-depolymerization plant opened in Carthage, MO. Every day, the plant handles 200 tons of unused turkey parts produced by ConAgra's Butterball turkey plant. Such waste is now typically reprocessed into animal feed, but this practice may not be allowed much longer in the United States: Britain has already outlawed it in the wake of hoof-and-mouth and mad-cow disease outbreaks traced to reconstituted animal feed. The first stage of the thermal process has been around since the 1960s as a way to convert organic waste into hydrocarbon liquids. But the process has been inefficient, says Changing World chief technology officer Terry Adams, because it typically employs a single reactor both to heat the organic matter and to convert it into oil. That creates nonuniform heating, which breaks down molecules unevenly and results in a low-grade oil. Changing World uses two main reactors that heat and pressurize much more efficiently. And the system handles not only turkey offal but tires, plastics, sludge, municipal waste, paper, and livestock remains-expanding its potential for widespread use. "They have certainly produced the products they've claimed at a smaller scale," says MIT chemical engineer Jefferson Tester, who visited a pilot plant in Philadelphia and is intrigued by the larger-scale possibilities. Mother Nature can definitely transform the same products into usable fuel; you'd just have to wait a little longer. _____________________________ Same plant I think. But some rough stats http://www.perc.org/perc.php?id=290 The $20-million plant in Carthage is the first commercial application according to Brian Appel, CEO of the Philadelphia technology firm. He expects to process 200 tons of ConAgra turkey waste every 24 hours and extract 600 barrels of oil, 11 tons of minerals and 21,000 gallons of water clean enough to discharge in the municipal wastewater system. The resulting gas will be used to power the plant. If the TDP process works as anticipated, the possibilities are staggering. For example, if all U.S. agricultural waste were processed, it would yield the equivalent of 4 billion gallons of oil a year. Consider that in 2001, the U.S. imported 4.2 billion gallons of oil. TDP will not only be able to provide critical fuel, but also clean up massive amounts of waste. ____________________ Turning plastics and hydrocarbons back into raw materials using microwave energy http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn12141-giant-microwave-turns-plastic-back-to-oil.html Similarly, running 9.1 kilograms of ground-up tyres through the Hawk-10 produces 4.54 litres of diesel oil, 1.42 cubic metres of combustible gas, 1 kg of steel and 3.40 kg of carbon black, Meddick says. Watch a video of tyre powder being reduced by the Hawk-10. ________________________ Rubbish patent on same theme http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6387221.html -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist