We can't escape physics. Weight + Speed = Fuel. People want to go faster, carry more (A/C, 20" Woofers, power windows, less road noise, comfy ride, etc) Until its OK to drive a bicycle wheeled, carbon fibre frame and thin fish shaped shell, at 30 MPH with no accesssories, we won't see huge ( >60) MPG happening. Extreme example but you get the idea. Even a 250cc motorbike doesn't get what you think it would... about 70 mpg, 600cc around 40/45 mpg http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/ I looked into getting a bike but it'd only save about $800 a year @ $4 a gallon - without insurance and repairs factored in. On top of that I have enough issues with people trying put their wheels where mine are now. >>> microbrix@gmail.com 28 Nov 07 14:11:56 >>> On Nov 28, 2007 1:31 PM, Martin wrote: > I call shenanigans on your Passat TDI getting the same mileage as a > Prius. Maybe on the highway. Not a chance in the city. Battery disposal > is a non-issue in the Prius. They get recycled. My '87 ford escort wagon with every power gizmo they offered, and throttle-body injection got a consistent 32mpg with air on, and a mix of in-town and highway driving. When going downhill, my add-on (zemco) engine computer showed fuel consumption of 0 gal/hr if the grade was steep enough. In the late 70's there were conventional engine cars with as much as 50mpg. Why is it that now anything over 30 seems to be a big deal? -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist