This is also the situation I'm in - I have a BA in Math, and I'm working at an OK job as a software engineer, but I'd really like to make the jump to electronics. And yet the only way I see this happening is by getting an EE degree. So I'm working on a BSEE in the background (online, at the University of North Dakota). I don't mind doing the school work, but I also think that I already have a fair amount of knowledge that would be applicable to an entry level position, and yet I have no way of really making that evident to a potential employer. - Marcel On 10/12/07, Rich wrote: > I wonder how one becomes an engineer without a degree. In the US, I think, > it would be very unusual. I know many engineers who have a degree in math > or phusics, usually a graduate degree. But I cannot think of anyone I have > met with no degree, at least in recent years. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Breheny" > To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 12:21 AM > Subject: Re: [OT] Non-degree holders as an engineer > > > > Another perspective: > > > > At the company I work for (70 employee startup, 4 years old), things > > are still pretty much run by the techie types, not the pure management > > types. The HR department asks US, the engineers, what we want the > > requirements to be. > > > > We still (almost) require a BS degree for engineers we hire. Why? Not > > because HR says so, but because engineering says so. We are biased > > (rightly or wrongly) toward thinking that people with the degree AND > > the enthusiasm for the subject make the best employees in our > > high-responsibility, high degree of independence environment. For > > example, I often have to use a wide range of skills in my job > > (physics, chemistry, people skills, math, etc.) which I largely > > learned in school (except people skills :-) as opposed to my EE skills > > (which I learned about 50% in school, 50% on my own). Most of the good > > non-degreed people we see are people with a lot of experience in one > > area and that is not broad enough for us. > > > > We made one exception to this policy that I know of and in that case, > > it was a really good exception to make. However, it was completely > > clear from his years and years of experience and his interview that he > > could handle the job well. > > > > Sean > > > > > > On 10/12/07, Marcel Duchamp wrote: > >> Xiaofan Chen wrote: > >> > How difficult a non-degree holder in engineering can be promoted > >> > as an engineer? > >> > > >> > In my previous job, a diploma holder will start as a technician. Then > >> > he > >> > needs to be promoted several times (senior technician, technical > >> > specialist, senior technical specialist, associate engineer and then > >> > senior associate engineer) in order to be an engineer B. On the > >> > other hand, an engineering graduate will start as an Engineer B. > >> > > >> > I think that is an extreme case. How about the situation in your > >> > company? > >> > > >> > Xiaofan > >> > >> The situation varies quite a bit in the US. In my limited experience, > >> the biggest problem for techies lacking a Bachelors degree (4 year) is > >> getting *in* the door at anything above a technician level. Most > >> companies that have an HR department staff it full of non engineer types > >> who don't have a clue about how to separate the "chaff from the wheat". > >> So they base it right from the start on "what degree do you have?" > >> > >> If a good non-degreed person gets into a company, most will put the > >> person to work after a while at the highest level that the person can > >> do, in general. In other words, the "peter principle" goes to work. > >> They rise up to doing a level of work that they can achieve well. > >> > >> While in a given company, a good tech can end up doing engineering or > >> supervising or whatever. But if put out on the street, it is difficult > >> to go to a new company and start at the level they recently left off at. > >> Once again, the HR department says "what degree do you have?" > >> > >> Again, in my limited experience, the really good non-degreed techies > >> spin off into consulting. I worked in the consulting business for a > >> dozen years or so and *never* was asked about credentials. Only results. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > >> View/change your membership options at > >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > >> > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > > View/change your membership options at > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist