I wonder how one becomes an engineer without a degree. In the US, I think, it would be very unusual. I know many engineers who have a degree in math or phusics, usually a graduate degree. But I cannot think of anyone I have met with no degree, at least in recent years. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Breheny" To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Non-degree holders as an engineer > Another perspective: > > At the company I work for (70 employee startup, 4 years old), things > are still pretty much run by the techie types, not the pure management > types. The HR department asks US, the engineers, what we want the > requirements to be. > > We still (almost) require a BS degree for engineers we hire. Why? Not > because HR says so, but because engineering says so. We are biased > (rightly or wrongly) toward thinking that people with the degree AND > the enthusiasm for the subject make the best employees in our > high-responsibility, high degree of independence environment. For > example, I often have to use a wide range of skills in my job > (physics, chemistry, people skills, math, etc.) which I largely > learned in school (except people skills :-) as opposed to my EE skills > (which I learned about 50% in school, 50% on my own). Most of the good > non-degreed people we see are people with a lot of experience in one > area and that is not broad enough for us. > > We made one exception to this policy that I know of and in that case, > it was a really good exception to make. However, it was completely > clear from his years and years of experience and his interview that he > could handle the job well. > > Sean > > > On 10/12/07, Marcel Duchamp wrote: >> Xiaofan Chen wrote: >> > How difficult a non-degree holder in engineering can be promoted >> > as an engineer? >> > >> > In my previous job, a diploma holder will start as a technician. Then >> > he >> > needs to be promoted several times (senior technician, technical >> > specialist, senior technical specialist, associate engineer and then >> > senior associate engineer) in order to be an engineer B. On the >> > other hand, an engineering graduate will start as an Engineer B. >> > >> > I think that is an extreme case. How about the situation in your >> > company? >> > >> > Xiaofan >> >> The situation varies quite a bit in the US. In my limited experience, >> the biggest problem for techies lacking a Bachelors degree (4 year) is >> getting *in* the door at anything above a technician level. Most >> companies that have an HR department staff it full of non engineer types >> who don't have a clue about how to separate the "chaff from the wheat". >> So they base it right from the start on "what degree do you have?" >> >> If a good non-degreed person gets into a company, most will put the >> person to work after a while at the highest level that the person can >> do, in general. In other words, the "peter principle" goes to work. >> They rise up to doing a level of work that they can achieve well. >> >> While in a given company, a good tech can end up doing engineering or >> supervising or whatever. But if put out on the street, it is difficult >> to go to a new company and start at the level they recently left off at. >> Once again, the HR department says "what degree do you have?" >> >> Again, in my limited experience, the really good non-degreed techies >> spin off into consulting. I worked in the consulting business for a >> dozen years or so and *never* was asked about credentials. Only results. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive >> View/change your membership options at >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist >> > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist