> On Jun 23, 2007, at 8:26 PM, Vitaliy wrote:
>
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>>> - Why should programmers get special protection? What about other  
>>> people
>>> (say, textile workers)? Why don't we just close down the borders (or
>>> impose
>>> high tariffs on all products), and thus protect ALL industries?
>>
>> I think this is because US does have an edge in hi-tech industry.
>
> O-k... so we should protect an industry that is already more  
> competitive
> than other industries?
>
>> In the days of globalization it is very difficult to be self- 
>> sufficient
>> even
>> though US is so lucky to have plenty of nature resources and a good
>> system.
>
> What's so great about being self-sufficient, anyway?
>
>>> - If the company's only goal is to pay unlivable wages to its
>>> programmers,
>>> how can the foreigners survive (they too have live in the US),  
>>> and what
>>> is
>>> their incentive to come in the first place?
>>
>> The salary is not really unlivable, just lower than the one who  
>> holds the
>> job
>> before. They can survive. They can live a better life after  
>> getting the
>> green
>> card and later the citizenship. Their children can live a better  
>> life.
>> These
>> are all incentives.
>
> Given the current legislation, workers in question must go back to  
> their
> home country after their period of employment (measured in months)  
> is over.
> Of course, if such worker gives birth to a child while in the US,  
> the child
> can stay -- since they are considered US citizens by birth. Total  
> nonsense.
>
>> Sometimes people just blindly believe that life in
>> US is good.
>
> I believe this with my eyes wide open. :)
>
>>> - Why not give the American educational system a kick in the  
>>> pants, so it
>>> would start churning out smart, productive programmers who can
>>> successfully
>>> out-compete people from the outside?
>>
>> I do not know much about the school education system here. However
>> I certainly think the children are happier here than in China/ 
>> Japan/India
>> and
>> might be more creative.
>
> How do you figure?
>
>> And I think there are many good universities here.
>> The US PhD programs are certainly one of the best among the world.
>
> There's a disconnect b/w public schools and universities/colleges.  
> People
> who can't read after graduating from high school are not college  
> material.
>
> Teacher's unions are at the root of the problem with public  
> schools. Tenures
> have a similar effect on universities, although to a lesser extent  
> (at least
> the professors have to "earn" their job protection).
>
> Vitaliy

I am going to ask a couple of questions:   ( or maybe make statements )

1) When one says "self-sufficient" , is one referring to oneself, the  
family,
the neighborhood, the county, the country or the world ?  I don't get  
all this
emphasis on artificial ( at least to me ) borders.

2)  Governments always foul up education.  If there are not enough good
graduates coming out of the world's schools.......   let private  
industry take over.
Businesses will pay to insure they get the educated graduates that  
they want.
And businesses will quickly realize that a "rounded" graduate is more  
valuable.

3) Teacher's unions exist because the government protects them.  In a  
free
market, a TU would fade away.  The best teachers would be paid more and
their expertise would be leveraged.

Best

Cedric
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