Thanks all; yes I believe that the magnets have lost power. >From = http://www.electricmotors.machinedesign.com/guiEdits/Content/bdeee3/bdeee3_= 5.aspx ************************************** /*"Magnet properties:*/ Dc motors use a variety of permanent-magnet = materials. Early designs employed ceramic or ferrite and AlNiCo magnets. = These materials are still widely applied, however, in automobiles and = other areas where low cost as well as reliability is important. Newer = designs use rare-earth samarium-cobalt and neodymium magnets. Most magnets have stable magnetic properties within the normal operating = temperature range of the motor. But some magnets have a higher = temperature coefficient than others. High temperature-coefficient = magnets may become too weak if operated at high temperatures for = extended periods. Depending on the magnetic material and slope of the = motor's magnetic circuit, torque degradation may result over a wide = temperature range. Ceramic or ferrite magnets lose about 0.13% / =B0C of their remanence = above 25=B0C, while rare earth and AlNiCo may lose only 0.03% / =B0C. But = this loss is generally reversible if the temperature is kept within the = motor rating. Colder temperatures are seldom a problem. Since the = coefficient curve is linear, magnets are stronger at lower temperatures. Some grades of rare-earth magnets are more sensitive to temperature than = others. Magnets in the neodymium family may have irreversible magnetic = losses under wide temperature changes. These magnets have the highest = maximum-energy product (MEP), a figure of merit, of any commercial = magnet now available. High MEP comes at a premium and should not be lost = to temperature extremes. Neodymium magnets are continually being = improved with lower temperature coefficients to make them as stable as = other rare-earth grades. Peak loads applied to AlNiCo and ceramic dc motors can degrade their = magnetic properties. AlNiCo motors have a peak current rating which = usually corresponds to a point above the knee of the B/H curve. Current = exceeding this rating, caused by either a current spike or a constant dc = input, are over the knee and cause permanent demagnetization. A = demagnetized AlNiCo motor may only provide 50 to 60% of its original = torque. Fortunately, rare-earth magnets are not as sensitive to = demagnetization as AlNiCo and ceramic." ******************************************* Mark -- = http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist