im using a velleman k8048 kit programmer. i think i have sorted it now, but it still wont program without being connected via icsp, which is weird. the icsp wasnt working before, as i wasnt reading the pinout correctly, i got the usart dt and ck instead of the programming i/o and clock. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/16f876-tf3941831.html#a11185548 Sent from the PIC - [PIC] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist