This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C77A91.5384B0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Olin I need to back up a step. Here is a measurement when I type pic_prog at the command prompt. The programmer is taking the VDD line to 5V even though I'm not using the -VDD option CH1 = VPP CH2 = PGD CH3 = PGC CH4 = VDD Is this right? Phillip Things should be as simple as possible but no simpler Phillip Coiner CTO, GPS Source, Inc. Your source for quality GNSS Networking Solutions and Design Services, Now! -----Original Message----- From: piclist-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Olin Lathrop Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:03 AM To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. Subject: Re: [PIC] Pro_programer/head in dark place troubles Phillip Coiner wrote: > Seems to me the best way to figure out what is going on is to look the > rise/fall times This is something I want to see, if only to eliminate it as a possible source of the trouble. > of my > programmer in comparison to the rise times of a working unit with the > same type of devices. I don't really care, nor is it relevant what other programmers are doing. I know what the rise and fall times *for my programmer* need to be for it to work correctly. As I said before, the fact that this works with the ICD2 only means the lines are hooked up correctly. > The PGD and PGC pins are next to each other on the device so I'm > surprised the designers would not expect them to wind up side by side > in a programming cable. I don't think these two things were designed with each other in mind. You are assuming a lot more deliberate intent than I think is there. Putting PGC and PGD next to each other on the ICD2 cable was unfortunate, and I have found cases where crosstalk between the two was definitely the issue. As I said before, this and other ICSP issues are discussed in my circuit design guide for ICSP at http://www.embedinc.com/picprg/icsp.htm. > I have no problems with building a different cable that uses the other > header on the programmer instead of the RJ-12. > I can use a twisted pair with ground around each signal as kind of a > shield or put the signals on a pair together for cross talk > cancellation. > What would you suggest? As I said in a earlier private message to you, use the P21 header "PGM Out" on the ProProg instead of the RJ-12 jack. Use a ribbon cable with the lines in the same order as on P21, which is the easiest way to build the cable anyway. Then permute the wires as necessary as close as possible to the target board end of the cable. And also put about 47pF of capacitance to ground on both PGC and PGD close to the target PIC or at least on your board. I don't know if this is the problem, but I've proven it to be the problem in some other cases. ******************************************************************** Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products (978) 742-9014. Gold level PIC consultants since 2000. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist ------=_NextPart_000_0107_01C77A91.5384B0C0 Content-Type: image/tiff; name="Picture 019.tif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Picture 019.tif" TU0AKgAAAAgADgD+AAQAAAABAAAAAAEAAAQAAAABAAABQAEBAAQAAAABAAAA8AECAAMAAAABAAgA AAEDAAMAAAABgAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAMAAAERAAQAAAAQAAAHBgEVAAMAAAABAAEAAAEWAAQAAAAB AAAADwEXAAQAAAAQAAAGxgEaAAUAAAABAAAAtgEbAAUAAAABAAAAvgEoAAMAAAABAAEAAAFAAAMA AAMAAAAAxgAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAEAAAAB//////////////////////////////////////// /////+7u3d3MzLu7qqqZmYiId3dmZlVVREQzMyIiEREAAP////////////////////////f37+/n 59/f19fPz8DA///g4MHBoqKDg2RkRUUmJgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD///////////////////// ///39+/v5+ff39fXz8/AwP//7u7d3czMu7uqqpmZiIh3d2ZmVVVERDMzIiIREQAA///g4MHBoqKD g2RkRUUmJgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD//wAA 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