A nice plastic case ?? Think outside the box.. The ICD2 'box' has support for a programming lead a USB lead and a charging / supply lead. Make it work from a coin cell or two and buy the boxes from microchip.. A hole in the top for an LCD and the SD ram can go in the hole where the Dee connector was... Does it need batteries ?? Probably not. The USB can provide power to load the unit and the target could provide power to program itself just needs a small up converter for Vpp. Regards, Steve -----Original Message----- From: piclist-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:piclist-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Axtell Sent: 06 March 2007 03:18 To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. Subject: Re: [PIC] Possible PIC App That Might Make Money Olin Lathrop wrote: > Bob Axtell wrote: > >> Portable PIC Programmer >> >> Similar to what Tony Nixon was trying to do with his >> "Pocket Programmer", there is a market for a truly portable >> PIC production programmer. The market is not only production >> but also field service (to make field updates). I believe this >> market can be as large as $USD 100K the first year, at a cost >> of $200ea, and become $USD 1M+ within 3 years. >> > > I have thought of this too, but I don't see the market anywhere near the > size you do. If I remember right, Tony Nixon's pocket programmer was a > commercial failure. > Yes, because it came into being before ICSP came into vogue. The field update market has jumped a LONG way past those old days. Everything is smaller, everything needs constant updates nowadays. I think my estimates are low, frankly. Also, it wasn't very rugged. This needs to be VERY rugged, and packaged. > At $200 each a reasonable profit is possible, but this would have to include > a nice plastic case, etc, all which make the up front development costs > higher. And even if your market estimates are correct, that isn't going to > be achieved by selling on a hole-in-the-wall web site. That means there is > significant work envolved in setting up and managing all the resellers. > > I don't think there is so much packaging; there are some great cases that look like multimeters and they can take a 3' drop. >> It must be able to be loaded from a USB port on a WinXP laptop, >> data stored in smaller SD card, storing at least 32 files. >> > > Or just a flash chip, since the user never removes the memory anyway. They > manage whatever the programmer stores via the software and the USB > interface. > > That's OK, would save a lot of money.. >> To be easy >> to control, it probably would need a 2 x 16 LCD display. Needs to be >> NiMH powered, with built-in charger which can accept walwart or >> automotive charging source. >> > > Think about the total joules needed for a programming session. I think you > can get a lot of programming sessions from a pair of single use AA > batteries. If someone wants rechargeable, they can use AA NiMH with a > external charger. Keep it simple. I doubt anyone would not buy it because > it accepted just AA batteries without a integrated charger. > > Let's do a quick check. Let's say pessimistically that 500mA would be drawn > from a pair of AA batteries during programming. That's a lot, and would > only happen if significant target circuit was powered along with the PIC. > I'm specifying 100mA Vdd for the USBProg and it isn't percieved as a > limitation. Of course that 500mA at 3V would mean significantly less Vdd > current, but still a substantial amount. I don't remember what the rating > is for modern one-time AA batteries, but probably 3Ah is conservative (you > can get NiMH cells close to that already). That means a pair of AA > theoretically has 6 hours programming life. Let's further say > pessimistically that each programming operation takes 1 minute. That means > a pair of AA in theory is good for 360 programming operations. Even if it's > only 300, that's a lot. Changing the batteries once every 300 programming > operations is unlikely to scare off too many customers, and there is no > charger to loose, and no charing circuit to incorporate and pay for and find > space for. > > This is not a good application for NiMH because of their high > self-discharge. This programmer is the kind of thing that gets banged > around in the bottom of a field service kit and possibly forgotten for > months on end until it's needed right there right away. > > As I said, I've thought about this before too, including a design for it > based partly on the USBProg. If you really believe this is a viable > product, are you willing to invest in it and then share in the profits > later? > > I just might. I think your basic USBProg would be a great basis for it. Probably only ONE NiMH AA would be needed, methinks. --- and Olin, Microchip loves you. They would get behind it if it were in a nice case. Remember whereas we are engineering types, they are marketing types. Ask 'em if there is a market, and see what _they_ say. You will be surprised. --Bob > ******************************************************************** > Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products > (978) 742-9014. Gold level PIC consultants since 2000. > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist