Olin Lathrop wrote: > Bob Axtell wrote: > >> Portable PIC Programmer >> >> Similar to what Tony Nixon was trying to do with his >> "Pocket Programmer", there is a market for a truly portable >> PIC production programmer. The market is not only production >> but also field service (to make field updates). I believe this >> market can be as large as $USD 100K the first year, at a cost >> of $200ea, and become $USD 1M+ within 3 years. >> > > I have thought of this too, but I don't see the market anywhere near the > size you do. If I remember right, Tony Nixon's pocket programmer was a > commercial failure. > Yes, because it came into being before ICSP came into vogue. The field update market has jumped a LONG way past those old days. Everything is smaller, everything needs constant updates nowadays. I think my estimates are low, frankly. Also, it wasn't very rugged. This needs to be VERY rugged, and packaged. > At $200 each a reasonable profit is possible, but this would have to include > a nice plastic case, etc, all which make the up front development costs > higher. And even if your market estimates are correct, that isn't going to > be achieved by selling on a hole-in-the-wall web site. That means there is > significant work envolved in setting up and managing all the resellers. > > I don't think there is so much packaging; there are some great cases that look like multimeters and they can take a 3' drop. >> It must be able to be loaded from a USB port on a WinXP laptop, >> data stored in smaller SD card, storing at least 32 files. >> > > Or just a flash chip, since the user never removes the memory anyway. They > manage whatever the programmer stores via the software and the USB > interface. > > That's OK, would save a lot of money.. >> To be easy >> to control, it probably would need a 2 x 16 LCD display. Needs to be >> NiMH powered, with built-in charger which can accept walwart or >> automotive charging source. >> > > Think about the total joules needed for a programming session. I think you > can get a lot of programming sessions from a pair of single use AA > batteries. If someone wants rechargeable, they can use AA NiMH with a > external charger. Keep it simple. I doubt anyone would not buy it because > it accepted just AA batteries without a integrated charger. > > Let's do a quick check. Let's say pessimistically that 500mA would be drawn > from a pair of AA batteries during programming. That's a lot, and would > only happen if significant target circuit was powered along with the PIC. > I'm specifying 100mA Vdd for the USBProg and it isn't percieved as a > limitation. Of course that 500mA at 3V would mean significantly less Vdd > current, but still a substantial amount. I don't remember what the rating > is for modern one-time AA batteries, but probably 3Ah is conservative (you > can get NiMH cells close to that already). That means a pair of AA > theoretically has 6 hours programming life. Let's further say > pessimistically that each programming operation takes 1 minute. That means > a pair of AA in theory is good for 360 programming operations. Even if it's > only 300, that's a lot. Changing the batteries once every 300 programming > operations is unlikely to scare off too many customers, and there is no > charger to loose, and no charing circuit to incorporate and pay for and find > space for. > > This is not a good application for NiMH because of their high > self-discharge. This programmer is the kind of thing that gets banged > around in the bottom of a field service kit and possibly forgotten for > months on end until it's needed right there right away. > > As I said, I've thought about this before too, including a design for it > based partly on the USBProg. If you really believe this is a viable > product, are you willing to invest in it and then share in the profits > later? > > I just might. I think your basic USBProg would be a great basis for it. Probably only ONE NiMH AA would be needed, methinks. --- and Olin, Microchip loves you. They would get behind it if it were in a nice case. Remember whereas we are engineering types, they are marketing types. Ask 'em if there is a market, and see what _they_ say. You will be surprised. --Bob > ******************************************************************** > Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products > (978) 742-9014. Gold level PIC consultants since 2000. > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist