> hope the members come up with something better I'm definitely investigating the Slim Jim design, as suggested by Dennis Crawley, for some applications http://www.hamuniverse.com/slimjim.html For the majority of users a 1/4 wave, eg wire or small telescopic, will be just fine, but I'd like the option of 1/2 or 5/8 if cost and packaging space permit -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist