Permission to speak frankly, Sir!.
Assumed given

Flame shields up.

There's some good stuff on this thread, and I'm pleased I started it 
(even if its appositeness to so many was serendipitous rather than 
planned).
.
BUT amongst the undoubted good advice and different thinking 
suggestions there is still a surprising amount of judgementalism and 
I-'ve-got-the-answer-for-you-ism peeking through.

Several people have suggested some quite sensible sounding ideas re 
life style, attitude, drugs or not,  etc, but have then spoiled it by 
adding effectively " ... and if you just did this as well you wouldn't 
have the problems you do [turkey]". In some cases this may well be 
true. In other cases it certainly isn't. For some at least a small 
dose of animal tranquiliser (aka Ketamine) may be THE most stunningly 
good thing that ever happened to them. For others it would be a crutch 
and a prop better not used.

Even Gerhard, who I have long appreciated for his measured approach 
and sense of fairness, and who I'm sure intended to give good and kind 
advice, risks tearing at sensitive feelings with an answer that was 
meant to be helpful. To wit -

>> What do you recommend for someone with chronic fatigue, who can't 
>> exercise,
>> and has great trouble sleeping?

> If asked, I'd say a possible first step is to stop complaining, 
> accept
> whatever is and try to make the best out of it. And be happy with 
> that, as
> it still is more than many others have.

Now, it may just be a "lost in translation" issue but some people 
could easily see this as saying, along with some good advice.

- you're a moaner.
- you fail to accept your lot as you ought
- eat your greens, the poor starving children in "...." would love to 
have those to eat.
- your mother wears army boots

*IF* the person with chronic fatigue is Dave, and I somehow doubt it, 
as Dave has evidenced an apparent enthusiasm and go out there and 
gettem ism as much as any on list, then he would I think be quietly 
appalled at such a rebuff (even if it happened to be entirely to the 
point :-) !). If the person concerned is a loved one close to him (eg 
his wife) then pistols at dawn at 10 paces may not be out of the 
question.

Gerhard may just want to put the same advice differently.
Dave may wish to tell us more.
Russell may wish to crawl inside his flame shelter and lock the door.


        R


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