On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 11:35 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote: > Herbert Graf wrote: > > Imagine my surprise if at the checkout they proclaimed I ALSO had to > > pay shipping and handling from the factory the item was produced in > > China to the store I'm standing in? > > That would be silly of course, but the comparison is likewise silly. Online > sellers aren't charging you extra for the various parts of producing the > product either. The part you are complaining about is the extra cost to > deliver it to you. When you go to your local bricks and mortar store you > pay this cost directly since you're the delivery boy. Ahh Olin, but there is the rub, the costs to me, BEFORE delivery are often the same. Why? Because the stores make more money that way. For stores that have both bricks and mortar locations and online "locations" the prices are the same, the difference is I have to pay for shipping (often) if I order from the online place. Even in cases where the retailer is an online seller only, you'll notice the "pre shipping" price is invariably VERY close to the price of the exact same item at a local store. Why? Because most people only compare the item price and forget the shipping, so the online retailer is $1 cheaper vs. the bricks and mortar store, and that's the price they advertise, but then when you add the (usually outrageous) shipping and handling charge you end up paying more! > You don't pay more > because the next customer drove 30 miles in a hummer to get there when you > walked accross the street. But Olin, these items are being delivered usually from overseas, you think the extra 30 miles that package would have traveled to get to "Hummer owner's" place has ANY effect? > > At a bricks and mortar store the > > price for shipping, handling, packaging, store clerks, store leasing, > > etc. is all built in. > > But that part of the cost is built into online prices too, since you're not > talking about the handling, packaging and shipping to get it to you. Ahh, I see, that's what your getting at, the "double shipping". Hmm, that's true, however, let me counter that the online seller doesn't have to pay for a store clerk, cashier, fancy display or any of those other items when they sell to me online. The just need the exact same warehouse the bricks and mortar store would have. Yes, there are costs for the online presence, but those are tiny compared to the electric bills and leases for stores in prime locations, so I'll say that it costs them LESS even INCLUDING the "double" shipment. > > Why do MANY of them royally rip people off? > > They set a price for their product and a price to get it to you. You should > look at the total and decide if it's worth it. Whether the total is a > ripoff is a judgement call. So a $50 item with $20 shipping is a ripoff, > but $70 with free shipping would not be a ripoff? Yup, because the the $70 free shipping is the price I pay, I didn't have to dig around. I'm able to directly compare that $70 price with the $75 price in my local store without digging for 20 minutes trying to find the shipping costs. Have you noticed how MOST online retailers hide the shipping costs until you've already entered all your information? Heck, there are a few retailers I've had to order from that never even TELL you what shipping is, even after you submit your order. YOu have to email them and pester them to tell you what they ended up charging you for shipping. If they simply said "this item is $50, and if you enter your postal code we'll give you the final price" I would be MUCH happier. VERY FEW sites do this. Digikey is OK in this area, they have a relatively flat shipping charge (assuming your order isn't too large) and they're pretty up front with it. > > I search out the online retailers that INCLUDE shipping in the price. > > It's not hard to do, some retailers do it, I find those are the > > retailers I always go to first. > > You're choice. That may be a good deal if you live where shipping would be > expensive. If you're near by you may feel they are charging too much for > the item. They are just moving costs from distant customers onto near > customers, but there is no such thing as "free" shipping. One way or > another you're paying for it. In that sense "free" shipping is somewhat > dishonest. But at least I'd have easy prices to compare, the DISHONEST part is how many sites HIDE the shipping. And even ignoring that, receiving an item in the mail placed in an envelope having been charged $30 for shipping and handling and receiving it with a post mark of $3 still makes me feel ripped off. Why is pissing off a customer a good idea? > > Online retailers are competing with brick and mortar stores at a > > disadvantage: their customers have to WAIT for their items to arrive > > (and hope they do arrive). > > Actually I think online retailers have the advantage in many cases. I > personally hate physically going to a store and dealing with the associated > hassles and time spent. Most of the time shipping looks real cheap compared > to ordering from the comfort of my computer and having the product come to > me. Add up the all the true costs of going to a store and whatever hassle > cost your time is worth, and you probably "pay" more than reasonable > shipping for most items. About the only stores I physically go to anymore > are food stores. I guess you've never had to deal with a lost shipment them? Online ordering IS great, as long as everything goes perfect. When it doesn't, ALL the time you've saved ordering online over the years can be wasted due to this ONE missing shipment. > > > Every time I've sold something online I've included the shipping price > > in the price. Yes, on some destinations I've lost a little, but I set > > my margins to deal with that. On some items I've made money on the > > shipping portion. On average, the shipping portion comes out to close > > to zero. > > So using your terms, you've decided to rip off customers near you. Depends how you define "rip off". I give ONE price (or sometimes one price per "region", so a price for Canada, a price for the US, and a price for everywhere else). The amount I make on each item does vary depending on where it's shipped, so yes, on nearer customers my margins are higher then further customers. But the price I charge is up front, I never hide it, I truly do NOT believe ANY of my customers have ever felt ripped off. If a customer feels my price doesn't fly, they don't buy it. I don't weasel an order out of them with an artificially low price and then smack them with a "oh, you have to pay me this too" sort of email. In my book, a lost customer is FAR better then a pissed off customer (since even though you have one sale, the pissed off customers are usually very vocal). TTYL -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist