Talent follows opportunity. The opportunity for engineers in the US is decreasing. This is especially true in the software engineering community, although it applies as well to manufacturing and research as well. As it was mentioned already, the reason for the decline is due to globalization. In my humble opinion the way that globalization is presently structured is seriously flawed and needs to be fixed. In General, engineering salaries have also decreased rather than increased over the past two decades, (relatively). This further limits attraction to the STEM programs. But in any case increasing the supply of engineers without a demand will only drive salaries lower. In major cities, moreover, fewer high school students are studying math and physics to a degree that has created great concern. In colleges and universities across the nation, moreover, female students are outnumbering male students by a significant margin. These trends also reflect a decline in the promise of opportunity, domestically. The law of supply and demand seems to apply here. Also, in the US people tend to put engineers all in one box. But that is not the case. Research engineers are very heavy in math and theory, while only a fraction of manufacturing engineers can solve a first order ordinary differential equation. The highly theoretical engineers have always been the smallest group but this group is also shrinking. However, with the overall decrease in opportunity the market will shrink. It will not be displaced, it will simply shrink. The equilibration which you mention is still decades ahead and the resurgence of opportunity for engineers will occur on a global basis rather than on a localized basis. NAFTA and GATT apply as well to services as to products. Engineering in the final analysis is a service. The fact that the US has more capital and that it is distributed more evenly relative to other nations has little to do with opportunity in a diminishing technological based nation. Even the US Defense has become dependent on outsourcing. It was during the first Clinton administration that the specifications for military apparatus were required to conform to industrial specifications. The supposed rationale was to avoid toilet seats and hammers costing hundreds of dollars. It was the wrong solution to the right problem which essentially threw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. The military used to keep all of its R&D and manufacturing domestically and it was a significant market for engineering services. It too has diminished. Just my humble opinion. Respectfully, Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Xiaofan Chen" To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [OT] The brawn drain ? US manufacturing moving abroad > On 12/29/06, Peter P. wrote: >> Xiaofan Chen gmail.com> writes: >> >> > Just did a fast query from the World Bank. Even with the >> > exchange rate adjustment, China/India are both still quite poor... >> > >> > COUNTRY_NAME IND1_DESC >> > 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 >> > >> > 1) China GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) >> > 930 1000 1100 1270 1500 1740 >> > >> > 2) India GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) >> > 450 460 470 530 630 720 >> > >> > 3) Singapore GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) >> > 23030 21260 20820 21890 24740 27490 >> > >> > 4) United States GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) >> > 34400 34800 35230 37780 41440 43740 >> >> The World Bank's numbers do not count. GNI per capita is meaningless if >> one does >> not account for taxes (which are huge in many places one wouldn't >> expect - see >> Germany and Scandinavia f.ex.). By the same standards Luxemburg has the >> largest >> GDP in the world. This shows that it's worth working with chips ... (just >> kidding - I don't know how they do it). >> > > Let's count taxes, assume the tax rate in US is 40% and China/India 0% and > Singapore 10%. You can still see the huge differences. > > Year 2005 GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$), minus tax > China 1740 > India 720 > Singapore 24741 > USA 26244 > > And why is it not worth working with chips? > > For many poor people in the third-world countries, they are still > struggling with basic necessities. So they will be very happy to > work with chips if they can earn even US$1000 a year... > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > > __________ NOD32 1943 (20061228) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.29/607 - Release Date: > 12/28/2006 12:31 PM > > > > __________ NOD32 1943 (20061228) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist