This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C729CB.137BD8B1
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>very true. I prefer printf-style even on PC's where a debugger is often
>available and has much more capabilities than an ICD2 and is much =
faster
>than a wiggler-jtag.
>
>As an example: when debugging the (old) Jal compiler I had to hunt for
>bugs in the tree transformer. I did that by printing the before- and
>after-transformation trees (often before and after 10's of
>transformations) (in a format that was often taylored a bit towards the
>problem at hand) (often on paper because it was 10's of pages) and then
>inspected the trees to see what was happening. I realy don't see how I
>could do that with a debugger at all, much less what advantages a
>debugger would have!
>
>Wouter van Ooijen

This sounds very much like choosing "horses for courses". That type of =
data viewing really is awkward to do any other way than printf type =
dumps. But for other types of debugging then an ICD, JTAG  or simulator =
all have their benefits, e.g. over the last few days I have been using =
the MPLAB simulator to do initial debugging of a <1k words program on a =
16F628A, which has allowed me to get rid of a number of silly erors made =
in the code before I put it in the chip. Now I have code that I feel =
reasonably confident will boot up and show sensible things, where it =
would have gone to lala land without the simulator degug, or using an =
ICD to find the errors.
=20
But coming back to types of debugging interface, has anyone used the =
Freescale/Motorola JTAG style interface used on the HCS12 families, and =
I believe is also on the HCS08 families? It appears to have PROM in the =
processor for the debug interface that allows interrogation of variables =
while the user code is still running, as well as doing all the normal =
programming/ single step/ICD type functions. It seems to have a wealth =
of means of locking out access to give eeprom and code protection once =
the code goes into production as well.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C729CB.137BD8B1
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef;
	name="winmail.dat"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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=

------_=_NextPart_001_01C729CB.137BD8B1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

-- 
http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

------_=_NextPart_001_01C729CB.137BD8B1--