Just to clarify a few points based on the replies to my original post. This would be a dedicated pic. So as long as it works that's all that matters. All it has to do is handle the usb-232 won't be doing anything else. I am extremely limited in space and this needs to fit inside a case so a cable or dongle type would be far too big. Even the connecting cable between the two is going to be fun fitting and routing. The FT232R is a nice bit of kit. And probably would be far less headache in the long run. However I have a pile of smt 18F's sitting here which makes a difference as I'd love to get this running by say 5pm tonight. That's almost 5 hours, how hard could it be?? ;-] I mentioned in another reply that the high speed usb page in the design section has the firmware and such. It is based more on implementation in a pc. However in one of the forums there was a link to http://greta.dhs.org/UBW/ which the fellow has provided source, schematics etc for a stand-alone configuration which is much gooder. Actually this might be worth looking at for some of you guys who were talking about USB programmers. Dave -----Original Message----- >> btw Wouter, >> do you already sell "TTL-232R cable from FTDI" ? no > I think the OP needs to clarify if his app already uses a PIC > if it does > then adding an FT232RL actually takes up more space. but then he should realise that using the PIC as USB slave will eat a lot of resources (CPU, flash, RAM). Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist