> For the SOT-23 device though ex-circuit is not possible, even if I buy a > socket for the PS+, I won't be able to test the chip before soldering it > into the project. That's the only reason I'm looking into ICSP, and I > probably won't use ICSP for larger DIP chips. I have some idea what PIC's I > use now, but since I have the PS+ it's probably best to update it and keep > my options open. During the development phase you can use normal components, PDIP etc. So that you can easily remove the chip from a socket and put it back. Once your development finished you probably need only one time programming which makes things easier. Even if the chip does not work after you put it in place you do not have to test if that is because of the programming or because of a faulty piece by Microchip -- just desolder it and get the next one. With the programmer you can check if the programming itself was successful, anyway. ICSP is good when you have the hardware design but the project is not finalized yet with the software or if you need to continually update the software for some reason. Is is also good if you put a customized software for each of your clients so that you can't choose volume programming. But it may extend your expenses as the more external components needed. Tamas On 11/16/06, Jason wrote: > > From: "Wouter van Ooijen" > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:43 AM > > > > If you like working ex-circuit (plugging your chips back and forth) the > > upgrade would be a good idea. If you prefer ICSP I would consider and > > ICD2 clone (or, if you can afford it, the real thing). If you know now > > which PICs you will be using there are programmers that support less > > chips than an ICD2 but are a lot cheaper, like pickit2, Wisp628, > > EasyProg, DIY150, etc. Of one of these fits your needs it might be a > > cheaper alternative. > > So far I've had no problem working ex-circuit. Though my current project > is > a pain because it uses the PC's only serial port as does the PS+. > > For the SOT-23 device though ex-circuit is not possible, even if I buy a > socket for the PS+, I won't be able to test the chip before soldering it > into the project. That's the only reason I'm looking into ICSP, and I > probably won't use ICSP for larger DIP chips. I have some idea what PIC's > I > use now, but since I have the PS+ it's probably best to update it and keep > my options open. > > > From: "Jinx" > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:48 AM > > > > You can buy pogo pins (http://www.mouser.com/catalog/628/1770.pdf) > > or get some of the brass-based or solderable "tin" (have to experiment > to > > find which ones they are) spring-loaded pins used to hold watch straps > > to the watch. > > > > Take a piece of Vero/stripboard or PCB and solder them in a line > > I'm somewhat familiar with pogo pins from earlier threads here. So I just > need to solder them to a PCB/perfboard to make a connector and then I use > a > clamp to hold it against the matching points on my project PCB? I thought > I > needed a more complex holder to hold the pins in place. > > > Mine was upgraded some time ago with a PUM, and at the time > > it was worth it to keep the old girl going. Plus as more PICs come > > out and you need programming support it would be just too expensive > > to put new 17C44s in. The decision to move to PUM was pretty > > much on future costs > > Right now I'm mainly looking at the upgrade so I can use the cheaper > 16F628A > instead of the 628's I've been using. At a price difference of 60 cents > it > will take a long time for the PUM to pay for itself. Being able to use > the > 10F's will be nice but I'm still not convinced I want to move to SMT. > > I don't even know the difference between the 628 and 628A except the A is > cheaper and my PS+ firmware can't program it. > > > What you'll have to decide is whether you're in PICs for the long > > haul and/or have a keen enough interest in and use for them to make > > any expense worth it. In the bigger scheme of things though a PUM > > isn't going to poor-house you > > True enough that $30 isn't a major expense, but for me it's a hobby not a > profession, so I try to keep costs down. I don't really want to upgrade > this programmer and buy another programmer because right now I don't see > the > point in doing both. If I do buy the rail of 25 chips, it's a long-haul > investment for me :). > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > -- unPIC -- The PIC Disassembler http://unpic.sourceforge.net -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist