I am using 10F200 and 202 at the moment with ICSP as using the SOT23-6 version, so virtually there is no other way to programming it normally. You can program the 8 pin PDIP version in a traditional way (well, it is also a 6 pin one but in an 8 pin case) but that has different pinout than other base level 8 pin PDIP pics, you you would need an adapter for programming that one by inserting the chip into your programmer's socket. If you fear only the price, not the size it may help you out. There is an adapter for the SMD version, but handling those tiny chips are not easy -- I solder them by my hands and once I dropped one to the ground and I could not find it no matter how hard I have tried. I have just find it 2 weeks later accidentally :-) With ICSP as Wouter said you have to consider several things when you design your circuit, so for example MCLR is the Vpp pin and you have to make sure that your circuit will not prevent delivering the 12V programming voltage level to the chip. Also you have to make sure you protect the rest of your components from damaging etc so for exmple MCLR is normally pulled up to the Vdd which would be disaster if you allow the 12V entering in the Vdd pin... (a diode could be a good start but when you read the ICSP documentation you will get some other advices -- 30277D.PDF from Microchip website). I was lucky enough to have a very-very simple design so that virtually I could connect all the pins as it is, even MCLR used as an input pin -- the PCB that holds the chip is a separated panel so I can program it before attaching it to the rest of the thing. Tamas On 11/16/06, Wouter van Ooijen wrote: > > > As I understand it, I'll need to use ICSP (or buy a very > > expensive clip). In my reading about ICSP, it sounds like I > > should avoid reusing the programming pins in my circuit, but > > on a 6-pin chip, this isn't an option. Am I even on the > > right track, and can I do ICSP with my picstart plus? If so, > > is there a primer I could read to get started? > > You can do ICSP with a PS+ (some people do so), but it was not designed > for it. I would choose a programer designed for ICSP, like ICD2, PICkit2 > or one of Olins programmers. > > Avoiding the ICSP pins for other use will certainly result in working > ICSP, but the pins can be used in certain ways. Olin has a page about > ICSP. > > Alternatively you might solder the PIC and a few components that don't > hinder ICSP, then do the ICSP, then solder the remaining components. > > Wouter van Ooijen > > -- ------------------------------------------- > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive > View/change your membership options at > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist > -- unPIC -- The PIC Disassembler http://unpic.sourceforge.net -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist