peter green wrote: >> Unexperienced developers might risk their lives, and even design >> hazardous equipment that can risk the end users' lives > also doesn't transformerless imply not isolated from the mains? mains > neutral cannot be depended on to stay at near eath potential! Of course, and there's also nothing inherent in the design that says that the circuit potential has to be anywhere near neutral. It can be near phase voltage just as well, or anywhere in the middle, depending on the circuit. That's why this has to be well encapsulated with no active parts that can be touched, and when working on it it's best to use an isolation transformer. Gerhard -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist