> we have to respect a rule when powering > up the pic (a certain steps, example for HV: raising first Vpp > then Vdd). in this example, the elcheapo use a HV and it seems > to me that it doesn't respect this rule. in MOST cases you don't have to respect that rule, there are just a couple of gotchas 1: if mclr is disabled and you wan't to use that pin as an output you'd better be able to stop the oscilator so that the pins will be sitting as inputs on program mode entry. 2: if lvp is enabled and pgm is high or floating then some programmers (i think it depends on the timing of vpp rise from 0V-12V) will not be able to get a pic into high voltage program mode. Vdd control is a nice to have feature but it complicates the programmer circuit somewhat and also means for in cuircuit programming the program has to power the target (one of the key features of say the proprog is a power subsystem beefy enough to get good Vdd control on a large target circuit). So cheap programmers tend to live without it. in any case i would steer well clear of port abusing programmers like this, a decent programmer should have its own power supply, not connect any lines from the target direct to the pc and prefferablly use the port as it was intended to be used. -- http://www.piclist.com PIC/SX FAQ & list archive View/change your membership options at http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist